Lawbringer

[Commander Slap]

Got into Lawbro recently, he just feels really bad to play sometimes, when I get into my finisher heavy they just sit and stone face me, i let it fly. it usually always gets parried by good players, I feint it to guardbreak a potential parry attempt or dodge, they just sit there staring, and if I just feint it into nothing to try and parry a dodge attack, they continue to sit. is there something else I should be doing or have i just gotten really bad luck with mix-ups and 50/50's.

[HELLCAT]

He's just a really bad character in general, his 2nd rework still has no roll catcher LMAO

[Commander Slap]

Originally posted by HELLCAT:

He's just a really bad character in general, his 2nd rework still has no roll catcher LMAO

Yeah I know lmao, feels like he's missing a few chains and a few more unique attacks or options

[Stealth_5hadow]

faint then Parry bait then spam that shove lol. He gets better when you adapt to the others around you.

[Commander Slap]

Originally posted by Stealth_5hadow:

faint then Parry bait then spam that shove lol. He gets better when you adapt to the others around you.

they dont try to parry jack man, all the good people i fight stoneface everything i do. they sit like a statue, I could leave my pc, go get a degree. and come back and they would still be sitting there.

[MrPibbs]

Originally posted by Commander Slap:

Originally posted by Stealth_5hadow:

faint then Parry bait then spam that shove lol. He gets better when you adapt to the others around you.

they dont try to parry jack man, all the good people i fight stoneface everything i do. they sit like a statue, I could leave my pc, go get a degree. and come back and they would still be sitting there.

If they don't parry anything then just throw heavies through.

For a legit answer Lawbringer has effective offense in most scenarios. His forward dodge bash is now in practice completely unreactable. His chain 400ms light and chain bash work as a pseudo undodgeable mixup after a heavy. His side heavy finishers are some of the best unblockables in the game, and his top finisher can softfeint and is a vortex. His offense isn't the strongest, but it works.

You're being predictable, or getting unlucky, or facing scripters, likely a combination.

[BigJ]

Originally posted by MrPibbs:

Originally posted by Commander Slap:

they dont try to parry jack man, all the good people i fight stoneface everything i do. they sit like a statue, I could leave my pc, go get a degree. and come back and they would still be sitting there.

If they don't parry anything then just throw heavies through.

For a legit answer Lawbringer has effective offense in most scenarios. His forward dodge bash is now in practice completely unreactable. His chain 400ms light and chain bash work as a pseudo undodgeable mixup after a heavy. His side heavy finishers are some of the best unblockables in the game, and his top finisher can softfeint and is a vortex. His offense isn't the strongest, but it works.

You're being predictable, or getting unlucky, or facing scripters, likely a combination.

Very well, while I do agree lawbringer works, he is lackluster because:
1. His bash has the issue of been 600ms of no blockinh where any poke will get you, heroes with similsr bashes like JJ have frame advantage on their chain finishers to continue their offense or have HA as a chain starter (or dodge block in the case of conq).
2. Currently on pc his in chain bash/light is still unsafe on block hitstun, as you can early dodge and re-dodge on bash, but this is still common with some heroes, even katla has a similar issue with her heavy unblockable.
3. The unblockables are king, yes, but you have the issue of not so great stam numbers, requiring 3 hits to reach there, which require you to work with a basic kit till your mix up and no roll catcher, which means if I see I'm doing bad I can just disengage, similar issue for conq

[MrPibbs]

Originally posted by BigJ:

Originally posted by MrPibbs:

If they don't parry anything then just throw heavies through.

For a legit answer Lawbringer has effective offense in most scenarios. His forward dodge bash is now in practice completely unreactable. His chain 400ms light and chain bash work as a pseudo undodgeable mixup after a heavy. His side heavy finishers are some of the best unblockables in the game, and his top finisher can softfeint and is a vortex. His offense isn't the strongest, but it works.

You're being predictable, or getting unlucky, or facing scripters, likely a combination.

Very well, while I do agree lawbringer works, he is lackluster because:
1. His bash has the issue of been 600ms of no blockinh where any poke will get you, heroes with similsr bashes like JJ have frame advantage on their chain finishers to continue their offense or have HA as a chain starter (or dodge block in the case of conq).
2. Currently on pc his in chain bash/light is still unsafe on block hitstun, as you can early dodge and re-dodge on bash, but this is still common with some heroes, even katla has a similar issue with her heavy unblockable.
3. The unblockables are king, yes, but you have the issue of not so great stam numbers, requiring 3 hits to reach there, which require you to work with a basic kit till your mix up and no roll catcher, which means if I see I'm doing bad I can just disengage, similar issue for conq

I'll start by saying I don't think LB is great, he's probably bottom 10, but he's perfectly usable in both 1s and 4s and I'd argue is one of the most balanced characters in the game right now. Many characters above him if not all of them have some unhealthy ♥♥♥♥ in their kits while LB is very honest now. He could still use buffs though, absolutely. Rollcatcher, non-useless opener top heavy, impale damage buff (hilariously)...

But as to what you said, I spent some time in the lab testing:

1 - As I said before, EVERY opener in the game is susceptible to a lucky timed light interrupt. LB has a legion kick bash, like about 20 other freakin characters in the game, and he's just as susceptible as they are, while being LESS susceptible than the other heroes not named Afeera with different openers.

His finishers also actually have excellent recovery, good enough that landing a finisher heavy actually confirms a forward dodge bash if your opponent tries to buffer a light. Literally, he's that plus. JJ, funnily enough, doesn't get this. If the opponent buffers a light getting hit with a heavy finisher, your opener bash will be interrupted. Ocelotl and Conq also can't land a forward dodge bash after a UB heavy finisher... but Medjay can. JJ and LB likely have the same frame advantage after a finisher heavy, but LB has a better recovery (JJ has his stance recovery cancel, but that's not continuing offense). LB is perfectly able to continue his offense after a finisher heavy.

2 - Uh, frame advantages and punishes and the like don't change between PC and console man. Same game. But I'm not even sure what you're referring to here. Even on blockstun, his chain lights will catch dodges before they can get the iframes, and the bash works if they don't dodge. Add on top of this his top light is 400ms and unreactable, it's a 50/50 and not remotely unsafe. Even if you whiff the bash, they can't GB your recovery. Just tested all of this. Although, maybe really good players can block top and react to the bash since it's so delayed, but I'm honestly not sure.

3 - His offense is basic and uninspired until his finishers, yes, but they work fine. Really don't see this as a bad thing at all considering his defense is his focus. Stamina wise though? I mean I guess it's harder for him compared to the multitude of 2 hit chain and infinite chain heroes, but only very slightly. Any opener heavy, parry, GB, or bash gets you to his finishers immediately, with maybe spending 6-9 more stamina than most heroes.

By far his biggest weakness is his offense after an opener light, and if someone throws a lot of neutral lights as LB I can easily see them thinking he's hot garbage. The solution is don't throw lights from neutral, buuuuut that's not going to happen for most people.

[Commander Slap]

Originally posted by MrPibbs:

Originally posted by Commander Slap:

they dont try to parry jack man, all the good people i fight stoneface everything i do. they sit like a statue, I could leave my pc, go get a degree. and come back and they would still be sitting there.

If they don't parry anything then just throw heavies through.

For a legit answer Lawbringer has effective offense in most scenarios. His forward dodge bash is now in practice completely unreactable. His chain 400ms light and chain bash work as a pseudo undodgeable mixup after a heavy. His side heavy finishers are some of the best unblockables in the game, and his top finisher can softfeint and is a vortex. His offense isn't the strongest, but it works.

You're being predictable, or getting unlucky, or facing scripters, likely a combination.

I mix up what I do a lot. it just seems everything I can do is reactable, if i throw a neutral heavy they always parry. if I feint to gb they stoneface, its like everything i have is reactable.

[MrPibbs]

Originally posted by Commander Slap:

Originally posted by MrPibbs:

If they don't parry anything then just throw heavies through.

For a legit answer Lawbringer has effective offense in most scenarios. His forward dodge bash is now in practice completely unreactable. His chain 400ms light and chain bash work as a pseudo undodgeable mixup after a heavy. His side heavy finishers are some of the best unblockables in the game, and his top finisher can softfeint and is a vortex. His offense isn't the strongest, but it works.

You're being predictable, or getting unlucky, or facing scripters, likely a combination.

I mix up what I do a lot. it just seems everything I can do is reactable, if i throw a neutral heavy they always parry. if I feint to gb they stoneface, its like everything i have is reactable.

Well it isn't, not sure what else to tell you. He's always had some of the most unreactable finisher heavies (side heavies) and now his neutral offense is unreactable too. There may be some cracked out reaction monsters that can react to both, but I'm talking like less than 50 people, IF that.

But I will say feinting a normal blockable heavy into a GB isn't a mixup, and if you're facing a god that can like react to parry flash AND differentiate his heavies from his lights or something, neutral heavies won't do you any good. Though in that case you're probably just ♥♥♥♥♥♥ no matter what you do unless you're equally as cracked.

You're likely just on a low with the character.

[Commander Slap]

Originally posted by MrPibbs:

Originally posted by Commander Slap:

I mix up what I do a lot. it just seems everything I can do is reactable, if i throw a neutral heavy they always parry. if I feint to gb they stoneface, its like everything i have is reactable.

Well it isn't, not sure what else to tell you. He's always had some of the most unreactable finisher heavies (side heavies) and now his neutral offense is unreactable too. There may be some cracked out reaction monsters that can react to both, but I'm talking like less than 50 people, IF that.

But I will say feinting a normal blockable heavy into a GB isn't a mixup, and if you're facing a god that can like react to parry flash AND differentiate his heavies from his lights or something, neutral heavies won't do you any good. Though in that case you're probably just ♥♥♥♥♥♥ no matter what you do unless you're equally as cracked.

You're likely just on a low with the character.

yeah no im not feinting neutral heavies as a mix

[Commander Slap]

Figured out my issue, I wasnt using the side unblockable finishers enough. I started using it more and it made the entire kit improve overall.