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Coyote Bongwater Mar 20, 2021 @ 2:02pm
Gryphon is far and away the strongest hero in the game.
Or, maybe he isn't. I'd love it if someone could explain how he could be considered balanced. I am open for other opinions. Unfortunately, it's difficult for me to see it that way at the moment, considering he can easily be considered a melting pot of the best aspects of several other characters. As plenty of you probably know, one of his basic mixups involves a kick after a light attack/light combo. His kick's speed is fast, but fine. The guaranteed 28 damage that follows is a little unfortunate, and I'd like to *not* get struck by it, so dodging the kick seems like the way to go. Except, rather than the kick this time, he unleashes an undodgeable light attack to catch you as you attempt to dodge the 28 incoming damage. Unfortunately, this means his kick mixup is *genuinely* unreactable, and must be predicted every time. That's just one of the issues Gryphon has with his almighty moveset. Add hyper armor (cries in Lawbringer), a dodge-heavy that makes Kensei sweat, and general offense that Warmonger would be jealous of. It's bad enough that Warmonger makes Breach unplayable. Now it seems Gryphon is making every other mode unplayable.

I'm really sorry if I'm complaining too much. It's not my intention to downtalk Gryphon players or anything like that. If you like playing him, that's great.

But if someone could legitimately inform me about what I'm supposed to do against him, I would genuinely appreciate any advice.


** Just for fun, there's a video on Youtube of a player blindfolding himself before playing Gryphon in duels to demonstrate how effective his moveset is. He is level 10, Rep 0 and faces a Rep 70 Highlander. It's worth the watch.
Last edited by Coyote Bongwater; Mar 21, 2021 @ 1:10pm
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Originally posted by Sugmar:
Originally posted by Pickles:
Or, maybe he isn't. I'd love it if someone could explain how he could be considered balanced. I am open for other opinions. Unfortunately, it's difficult for me to see it that way at the moment, considering he can easily be considered a melting pot of the best aspects of several other characters. As plenty of you probably know, one of his basic mixups involves a kick after a light attack/light combo. His kick's speed is fast, but fine. The guaranteed 28 damage that follows is a little unfortunate, and I'd like to *not* get struck by it, so dodging the kick seems like the way to go. Except, rather than the kick this time, he unleashes an undodgeable light attack to catch you as you attempt to dodge the 28 incoming damage. Unfortunately, this means his kick mixup is *genuinely* unreactable, and must be predicted every time. That's just one of the issues Gryphon has with his almighty moveset. Add hyper armor (cries in Lawbringer), a dodge-heavy that makes Kensei sweat, and general offense that Warmonger would be jealous of. It's bad enough that Warmonger makes Breach unplayable. Now it seems Gryphon is making every other mode unplayable.

I'm really sorry if I'm complaining too much. It's not my intention to downtalk Gryphon players or anything like that. If you like playing him, that's great.

But if someone could legitimately inform me about what I'm supposed to do against him, I would genuinely appreciate any advice.


** Just for fun, there's a video on Youtube of a player blindfolding himself before playing Gryphon in duels to demonstrate how effective his moveset is. He is level 10, Rep 0 and faces a Rep 70 Highlander. It's worth the watch.

The first thing to mention, the video proves little. Highlander has an awful time against gryphon due to Not having a Heavy off GB for the kick punish and being shut down by dodge heavies. People have done blindfolded on other hero's and still won.

Edit: Just to add this heres an Orochi beating a gryphon blindfolded, Says alot

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/902714449

Still on to his kit

The first thing to note is he has nothing special

His Neutral Lights are bog standard 500MS, his Neutral Bash is 600MS and the same as other neutral Bashes like tiandis, Dodge attack is exactly the same as kensies, Which is annoying but easily punishable

His dodge foward attacks are both unfeintable, and just avoided blocking up

This means against a good player in a 1v1 scenario, Gryphon already struggles in the pressure department due to every option being reactable

The main issue of neutral bash is a few heros still cant punish it, Which is more an issue of heros not all having good ways to puniosh bashes. Hopefully future changes in TGS will add this too heros as its seems to be their intention. However, if you dodge the bash, both attacks after it are still fully reactable

His true strength is teamfighting, Which even then he is still outclassed. Wiffed dodge foward light into kick works well atleast, Large hitboxes and good target swap dodge attacks atleast give him a good time in antiganking and some gank setups. Aswell as Hyper armor on finisher and parries which allow him to get hits out easier. However, These are his only armored attacks. Finishers and Parries

Hist feats though, I agree they are broken. However considering there are still far more broken feats in the game (which havent been fixed for years), i doubt they will touch them lol

His main mixup is his bread and butter Kick, Which isnt even special and is somewhat unsafe.

the kick mixup itself is not unusal, it requires a read on both atacker and defender. The kick itself has a 1000MS Recovery making it unsafe in team fights and an easy punish on the correct read

For a quick breakdown

Dodging beats Kick, But gets hit by light, Feint to GB or heavy. FYI this has to be done on read for gryphon too. However for both the heavy and undodgable it can still be blocked or deflected accidentally mid dodge

Dodge attacks stuff the kick mixup almost entirely, The heavy And feint to GB, But are beaten by Light UD or feint to Parry

Not dodging beats Light, Heavy, Feint to GB, but is beaten by kick

Now heres where it gets interesting

His kick mixup is the same damage as other kick mixups, There is nothing unusual about it at all. Just in the other cases, its the UD Heavy that is the 28 damage, wheras the bash is far safer

I.e Nobushi has this, Shaolin Has this, BP has this. These all have almost the exact same mixup. Heros like BP and Conq too are also able to to a arguably stronger mixup from Dodge foward attacks out of neutral without even needing to chain

Hitokiri (when works) has a uncharged heavy Bash that chains back into another bash, Warden/Warmong/Cent all have charged bash mixups. Two of which that chain


So TLDR, When breaking his kit down he truely has nothing that makes him stand out when compared to many good heros. The real issue is many older heros still need tweaks to be good. Which is happening anyway since ubi is now pumping out "Mini reworks"

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Showing 1-15 of 44 comments
Spooky7.62 Mar 20, 2021 @ 3:07pm 
My biggest issue isnt his kick, or his dodge attacks but his undodge attacks at the end of a a chain which i believe can be fiented into a gb if he sees fit
#1
nugdolf Mar 20, 2021 @ 3:12pm 
Originally posted by Spooky5.56:
My biggest issue isnt his kick, or his dodge attacks but his undodge attacks at the end of a a chain which i believe can be fiented into a gb if he sees fit
these undodgable attacks are lights. they can't be feinted into a guardbreak
#2
Spooky7.62 Mar 20, 2021 @ 3:17pm 
Originally posted by nugdolf:
Originally posted by Spooky5.56:
My biggest issue isnt his kick, or his dodge attacks but his undodge attacks at the end of a a chain which i believe can be fiented into a gb if he sees fit
these undodgable attacks are lights. they can't be feinted into a guardbreak
Yea u right, but i get those and the heavys at the end of a chain confused as there both fast and very similar outside of the undodgable status
Last edited by Spooky7.62; Mar 20, 2021 @ 3:17pm
#3
Gaser Mar 20, 2021 @ 3:26pm 
Originally posted by Pickles:

** Just for fun, there's a video on Youtube of a player blindfolding himself before playing Gryphon in duels to demonstrate how effective his moveset is. It's worth the watch.

there is a video of someone playing shinobi blindfolded, you want to tell me he is op too.

Really anyone who uses this to back up there statment looks like a idiot.
#4
Coyote Bongwater Mar 20, 2021 @ 5:35pm 
Originally posted by Gaser:
Originally posted by Pickles:

** Just for fun, there's a video on Youtube of a player blindfolding himself before playing Gryphon in duels to demonstrate how effective his moveset is. It's worth the watch.

there is a video of someone playing shinobi blindfolded, you want to tell me he is op too.

Really anyone who uses this to back up there statment looks like a idiot.

Come on. I'm not trying to back up my complaint with that; I just thought it was funny. I'm sorry if it made you upset.
#5
Fed Groomer (Get that Glowussy) Mar 20, 2021 @ 6:06pm 
Originally posted by Gaser:
Originally posted by Pickles:

** Just for fun, there's a video on Youtube of a player blindfolding himself before playing Gryphon in duels to demonstrate how effective his moveset is. It's worth the watch.

there is a video of someone playing shinobi blindfolded, you want to tell me he is op too.

Really anyone who uses this to back up there statment looks like a idiot.
Anyone saying he has an unsafe 14/28 mixup saying he is fair and balanced doesn't know enough about the game
#6
miniweet Mar 20, 2021 @ 9:52pm 
Gryphon just has so many options and I like it the problem is no other hero can compete with him, ubi created a monster that show how some hero did not evolve since their release (looking at aramusha) . He simply has no tempo in a rhyme game
#7
Spooky7.62 Mar 20, 2021 @ 10:09pm 
Originally posted by miniweet:
Gryphon just has so many options and I like it the problem is no other hero can compete with him, ubi created a monster that show how some hero did not evolve since their release (looking at aramusha) . He simply has no tempo in a rhyme game
Musha can destroy a dumb griffin with well timed full block
#8
Fed Groomer (Get that Glowussy) Mar 20, 2021 @ 10:30pm 
Originally posted by Spooky5.56:
Originally posted by miniweet:
Gryphon just has so many options and I like it the problem is no other hero can compete with him, ubi created a monster that show how some hero did not evolve since their release (looking at aramusha) . He simply has no tempo in a rhyme game
Musha can destroy a dumb griffin with well timed full block
**laughs in feint gb, followed by dodge spam and kick**
Oh yeah, them all guard confirming 15 damage are really spooky.
#9
SargoXIII Mar 21, 2021 @ 1:50am 
we must blame developers
they don't think balance.
#10
T-70 X-Wing Mar 21, 2021 @ 2:15am 
every broken chrachter shares the feautre of side step heavies which has the speed of light but damage of heavies
#11
shower speedrunner Mar 21, 2021 @ 4:49am 
He is not OP in 1v1
Most of his stuff is pretty generic:
. Dodge heavy is just Kensei dodge heavy.
. Kick is another 500ms bash with different light/heavy mix up
. Neutral bash is 600ms that can chain, not new.

Thing is, in 4v4, the forward dash light/heavy chain to kick is too ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ annoying. The hitstun makes the dodge timing even more muddy.
#12
Gaser Mar 21, 2021 @ 5:12am 
Originally posted by Dying Alone:
Originally posted by Gaser:

there is a video of someone playing shinobi blindfolded, you want to tell me he is op too.

Really anyone who uses this to back up there statment looks like a idiot.
Anyone saying he has an unsafe 14/28 mixup saying he is fair and balanced doesn't know enough about the game
The mix up isn’t really hard to evade or punish.

The mix up really isn’t the problem, as said it’s the dodge attack and the feats.
#13
Gaser Mar 21, 2021 @ 5:13am 
Originally posted by cat:
He is not OP in 1v1
Most of his stuff is pretty generic:
. Dodge heavy is just Kensei dodge heavy.
. Kick is another 500ms bash with different light/heavy mix up
. Neutral bash is 600ms that can chain, not new.

Thing is, in 4v4, the forward dash light/heavy chain to kick is too ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ annoying. The hitstun makes the dodge timing even more muddy.

Tho with the first thing that’s the problem.

Kenseis is already way to safe and gryphon has a even faster one.
#14
Gaser Mar 21, 2021 @ 5:14am 
Originally posted by T-70 X-Wing:
every broken chrachter shares the feautre of side step heavies which has the speed of light but damage of heavies

Shaman is broken?
#15
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For Honor > General Discussions > Topic Details
Date Posted: Mar 20, 2021 @ 2:02pm
Posts: 44

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