new orochi is plain stupid and broken

[noobbeeii]

new orochi just not fun anymore for me i a main orochi b4 his new rework after this rework no i quit orochi i switch to shinobi because new orochi just not fun anymore and just fking dodge attack and kick just spam that ♥♥♥♥ u mostly likely win i done with him

[Sugmar]

Escrito originalmente por CuteFluffySpikeBall:

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Its not actually BS, Its just people aint gunna try it

The dodge into light beats every option excluding the dodge attack

Orochi also for alot of your punish options needs to make a read to punish you, Using dodgge into light minimises the process entirely

Its not my problem if you dont wanna try this or learn it however

There is nothing to learn when in order to punish someone you throw a dice and hope for a good outcome 2 times in a row.

Tell me one bash that is equally safe as roach's kick. Not even shugo's headbutt is on that level.

Actually, Yes theres a lot to learn. I.e, Which punish is safer, which punish beats what, When to use what punish, Learning the enemies pattern

And you also fail to see the idea that roach also would also need to roll the dice to punish you. If orochi consistently punishes you its because he read you like a book, Or you played predictable as all hell. Or both

And well about safety, LB Chain bash and BP Chain bash come to mind

[Oath Ooze Beer]

Escrito originalmente por CuteFluffySpikeBall:

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This isnt true at all

Theres multiple different punishes, which all require a hard read on orochis side to counter punish

The only time his bash is "Literally unpunishable" is if you never adapt and do the same attempt of a punish over and over again

Multiple punsihes?
Dodge attack is pretty useless.
Dodge GB? He can do Light or cgb after bash.
Dodge bash? He has recovery to dodge it.

To counter these orochi needs to make a hard read. You can punish it if you make the correct read which is the whole deal of this game...

[Oath Ooze Beer]

Escrito originalmente por CuteFluffySpikeBall:

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Its not actually BS, Its just people aint gunna try it

The dodge into light beats every option excluding the dodge attack

Orochi also for alot of your punish options needs to make a read to punish you, Using dodgge into light minimises the process entirely

Its not my problem if you dont wanna try this or learn it however

There is nothing to learn when in order to punish someone you throw a dice and hope for a good outcome 2 times in a row.

Tell me one bash that is equally safe as roach's kick. Not even shugo's headbutt is on that level.

You're literally saying that making reads is useless and its just luck. Yeah, go with that logic. It'll take you nowhere...

[Oath Ooze Beer]

Escrito originalmente por Tomoko:

Escrito originalmente por CuteFluffySpikeBall:

There is nothing to learn when in order to punish someone you throw a dice and hope for a good outcome 2 times in a row.

Tell me one bash that is equally safe as roach's kick. Not even shugo's headbutt is on that level.

I'm... tempted to say nobu's kick. because aside of a dodge attack, you can't relly punish it either.

Almost every new bash is safer than nobushi's kick becauze they can throw a combo heavy after whiffing their bash which cannot be gb'd

[Oath Ooze Beer]

Escrito originalmente por Filthy Acts at Reasonable Prices:

Escrito originalmente por Jowain:

Orochi is THE Dodge Specialist and Dodge-Attack Specialist of the game now, he is no longer a counter attacker. Considering Tiandi has had no changes to their kit since launch calling them a Dodge Specialist now is a joke lol

The new Orochi is just Zhanhu but better, why play Zhanhu when you can turn your brain off, eat a banana and play Orochi?

There once was a bug with reworked Conqueror that allowed the hero to chain their bash without any recovery; that is what they've done here to Orochi and Zhanhu.
I've fine with being able to cancel attack recovery by dodging, but it should NOT apply to bashes under any circumstance, otherwise give Conq back his machine gun bash lol

Because orochi doesnt have the massive sweeping unblockables zhanhu has, Zhanhu is still a better pick for team oriented modes where Orochi is arguabbly the better pick for duel oriented modes

Tho zhanhu's side heavies offer a better mixup against mid-high levels. It catches early dodges and now that there are no option select its even stronger.

[Oath Ooze Beer]

Escrito originalmente por Filthy Acts at Reasonable Prices:

Escrito originalmente por CuteFluffySpikeBall:

There is nothing to learn when in order to punish someone you throw a dice and hope for a good outcome 2 times in a row.

Tell me one bash that is equally safe as roach's kick. Not even shugo's headbutt is on that level.

Actually, Yes theres a lot to learn. I.e, Which punish is safer, which punish beats what, When to use what punish, Learning the enemies pattern

And you also fail to see the idea that roach also would also need to roll the dice to punish you. If orochi consistently punishes you its because he read you like a book, Or you played predictable as all hell. Or both

And well about safety, LB Chain bash and BP Chain bash come to mind

People just want to shut their brain down after doing one thing. It exhausts them to make multiple reads.

[FlyingRedFlag]

multi stimuli every time and he can always back dodge to neutral and his dodge attack has no gb vuln so once more it's always his turn it's just bad game design and people arguing otherwise like to think they're good being on the offence 110% of the time because they're allowed to reset to neutral rather than be locked in anyone elses offence.

[Jowain]

Escrito originalmente por Hubjump:

multi stimuli every time and he can always back dodge to neutral and his dodge attack has no gb vuln so once more it's always his turn it's just bad game design and people arguing otherwise like to think they're good being on the offence 110% of the time because they're allowed to reset to neutral rather than be locked in anyone elses offence.

Double fun if you're going up against a player that can safely turtle or a lv 3 bot that just auto parries your attacks.

You don't get to play the game when fighting Orochi or Zhanhu atm, though Orochi is way worse because he has more options than Zhanhu (again the Dodge-Attack Specialist doesn't have omnidirectional dodge attacks, but the Counter Attacker does).

Orochi matches are a lot of "♥♥♥♥ you, I'm going to attack non-stop, I'm a COUNTER ATTACKER"
And the chuckleheads defending this ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ say "just parry the lights bro, just make a read dude".
Translation: "see the future or make a guess, ♥♥♥♥ you ♥♥♥♥ causual".

But hey, I'm all for Orochi and Zhanhu keeping their "cancel bash recovery by dodging" if we give this to ALL heroes with a bash. Sounds good? It does? Fantastic.

Actually Black Prior should cancel his bash recovery into Bulwark Stance; I'm sure no one will find an issue with that.

[Sugmar]

Escrito originalmente por Jowain:

Escrito originalmente por Hubjump:

multi stimuli every time and he can always back dodge to neutral and his dodge attack has no gb vuln so once more it's always his turn it's just bad game design and people arguing otherwise like to think they're good being on the offence 110% of the time because they're allowed to reset to neutral rather than be locked in anyone elses offence.

Double fun if you're going up against a player that can safely turtle or a lv 3 bot that just auto parries your attacks.

You don't get to play the game when fighting Orochi or Zhanhu atm, though Orochi is way worse because he has more options than Zhanhu (again the Dodge-Attack Specialist doesn't have omnidirectional dodge attacks, but the Counter Attacker does).

Orochi matches are a lot of "♥♥♥♥ you, I'm going to attack non-stop, I'm a COUNTER ATTACKER"
And the chuckleheads defending this ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ say "just parry the lights bro, just make a read dude".
Translation: "see the future or make a guess, ♥♥♥♥ you ♥♥♥♥ causual".

But hey, I'm all for Orochi and Zhanhu keeping their "cancel bash recovery by dodging" if we give this to ALL heroes with a bash. Sounds good? It does? Fantastic.

Actually Black Prior should cancel his bash recovery into Bulwark Stance; I'm sure no one will find an issue with that.

Make a read pretty much requires brain power, As you have to learn the various options and see what the opponent does/watch their patterns

Its not "you don't get to play the gsme", Well atleast maybe for you it is. But that isn't necessarily a issue of the hero

And a funny part about black prior


A majority of the cast already cannot punish his chain bash, Unlike orochi where every hero can punish it


He is also already capable of bashing then flipping some dodge attacks

[Tomoko]

Escrito originalmente por Filthy Acts at Reasonable Prices:

Escrito originalmente por Jowain:

Double fun if you're going up against a player that can safely turtle or a lv 3 bot that just auto parries your attacks.

You don't get to play the game when fighting Orochi or Zhanhu atm, though Orochi is way worse because he has more options than Zhanhu (again the Dodge-Attack Specialist doesn't have omnidirectional dodge attacks, but the Counter Attacker does).

Orochi matches are a lot of "♥♥♥♥ you, I'm going to attack non-stop, I'm a COUNTER ATTACKER"
And the chuckleheads defending this ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ say "just parry the lights bro, just make a read dude".
Translation: "see the future or make a guess, ♥♥♥♥ you ♥♥♥♥ causual".

But hey, I'm all for Orochi and Zhanhu keeping their "cancel bash recovery by dodging" if we give this to ALL heroes with a bash. Sounds good? It does? Fantastic.

Actually Black Prior should cancel his bash recovery into Bulwark Stance; I'm sure no one will find an issue with that.

Make a read pretty much requires brain power, As you have to learn the various options and see what the opponent does/watch their patterns

Its not "you don't get to play the gsme", Well atleast maybe for you it is. But that isn't necessarily a issue of the hero

And a funny part about black prior


A majority of the cast already cannot punish his chain bash, Unlike orochi where every hero can punish it


He is also already capable of bashing then flipping some dodge attacks

Excuse me ? what is this BS ? Orochi can get his bash punished ? When he can literally chain into a light which cancels the possibility to gb, to punish with a mere light/heavy. and can probably deal with dodge attacks with no I-frames

[FakeyBakey420]

Escrito originalmente por Tomoko:

Escrito originalmente por Filthy Acts at Reasonable Prices:

Make a read pretty much requires brain power, As you have to learn the various options and see what the opponent does/watch their patterns

Its not "you don't get to play the gsme", Well atleast maybe for you it is. But that isn't necessarily a issue of the hero

And a funny part about black prior


A majority of the cast already cannot punish his chain bash, Unlike orochi where every hero can punish it


He is also already capable of bashing then flipping some dodge attacks

Excuse me ? what is this BS ? Orochi can get his bash punished ? When he can literally chain into a light which cancels the possibility to gb, to punish with a mere light/heavy. and can probably deal with dodge attacks with no I-frames

Dodge then light. It'll land outside of the dodge timeframe and he can't block if you buffer the light + dodge quickly enough.

[Sugmar]

Escrito originalmente por Tomoko:

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Make a read pretty much requires brain power, As you have to learn the various options and see what the opponent does/watch their patterns

Its not "you don't get to play the gsme", Well atleast maybe for you it is. But that isn't necessarily a issue of the hero

And a funny part about black prior


A majority of the cast already cannot punish his chain bash, Unlike orochi where every hero can punish it


He is also already capable of bashing then flipping some dodge attacks

Excuse me ? what is this BS ? Orochi can get his bash punished ? When he can literally chain into a light which cancels the possibility to gb, to punish with a mere light/heavy. and can probably deal with dodge attacks with no I-frames

Dodge into light beats every option orochi has outside of Orochi hard buffering a dodge attacks, Which makes it so you can very easily bait orochis for an even larger punish

Even still, Using any other punish option orochi themselves has to make a read to punish them. If an orochi consistently counterpunishes you, Its because you played way too predictable and did not adapt

[Tomoko]

Escrito originalmente por Filthy Acts at Reasonable Prices:

Escrito originalmente por Tomoko:

Excuse me ? what is this BS ? Orochi can get his bash punished ? When he can literally chain into a light which cancels the possibility to gb, to punish with a mere light/heavy. and can probably deal with dodge attacks with no I-frames

Dodge into light beats every option orochi has outside of Orochi hard buffering a dodge attacks, Which makes it so you can very easily bait orochis for an even larger punish

Even still, Using any other punish option orochi themselves has to make a read to punish them. If an orochi consistently counterpunishes you, Its because you played way too predictable and did not adapt

I beg to differ. Orochi can combo his kick even if missed to a light. Concidering he got the frame advantage + attack speed advantage being close to instant already. Nah. His kick , is unpunishable.

[Oath Ooze Beer]

Escrito originalmente por Tomoko:

Escrito originalmente por Filthy Acts at Reasonable Prices:

Make a read pretty much requires brain power, As you have to learn the various options and see what the opponent does/watch their patterns

Its not "you don't get to play the gsme", Well atleast maybe for you it is. But that isn't necessarily a issue of the hero

And a funny part about black prior


A majority of the cast already cannot punish his chain bash, Unlike orochi where every hero can punish it


He is also already capable of bashing then flipping some dodge attacks

Excuse me ? what is this BS ? Orochi can get his bash punished ? When he can literally chain into a light which cancels the possibility to gb, to punish with a mere light/heavy. and can probably deal with dodge attacks with no I-frames

Just read what he said earlier and then give your opinion. You're not even listening to anyone

[Nox]

Escrito originalmente por Mr.IAmGodAndAll-knowing:

Escrito originalmente por Tomoko:

Excuse me ? what is this BS ? Orochi can get his bash punished ? When he can literally chain into a light which cancels the possibility to gb, to punish with a mere light/heavy. and can probably deal with dodge attacks with no I-frames

Just read what he said earlier and then give your opinion. You're not even listening to anyone

What are you supposed to read, everything even the "dodge and do light" is punishable.
You can give orochi to literal braindead people who randomly mush buttons and you won't be able to read them.

The "Just Read" argument simply doesn't work.