How do I counter Warden's Shoulder Bash

[друг (los siento)]

I had a duel match with a Warden thats spams SB over and over. I can read it once or twice, but there is so much possibility of what he can do , it feels like im rolling a dice. How do I counter it pls.

Also I found this from another discussion and I agree:
"Not only is chargeable, it's the only bash in the game that has at least 3 variations from neutral:
1, Uncharged bash -> double lights
2, 50% charged bash -> double lights
3, Fully charged bash -> top heavy
Now let's not forget that it's also the only bash in the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ game that is hard feintable and feintable before the bash happens or even 100ms into the bash and Warden could:
1, Hard feint the uncharged bash or the fully charged bash 100ms later and GB to catch dodge
2, Hard feint into parry to counter dodge attacks
3, Hard feint into Valiant Breakthrough to catch unlock rollers
4, Hard feint into nothing if you are afraid of being read

Warden has too many options from neutral and all of them are completely safe and not to mention the stamina cost for such an incredible move is laughable especially when compared to Hidden Stance or HL's OF options. This hero is brainless and takes little effort to run over peoples, without SB he's D tier, Ubisoft pretty much gave up on seriously reworks for Vanilla line up when they stated that there won't be any new animations for them meanwhile we get new emotes every month and new executions every season, new movelist is essential for meaningful rework and i have no idea what ubisoft are thinking and pouring their resources into."

[друг (los siento)]

Originally posted by Stylez MSR:

It's simple, to counter his shoulder bash you quit the game and take the 15 minute penalty and during those 15 minutes you can debate on whether or not you want to keep torturing yourself.

Ofcourse, Why didnt I think of that

[kudo]

I think most people will tell you that the only way to effectively counter Warden's shoulder bash is to use another equally disgusting bash character. I know this isn't a good answer, but this is what people will say. Vortiger and Conqueror are good bets for this, even if you don't want to play them.
A lot of other Warden defenders will say "learn the mind games", of course. And here you are, having fully dissected everything Warden can do off a shoulder bash, and it's still not enough. Warden is the only character in the game that has a move that isn't 100% telegraphed, so the flaw in this argument is asking why is it that Warden gets the exclusive privilege of having the only true 50/50 move in the game?
If the Warden is bad, light spam or heavy/feint/gb mixups are usually enough to intimidate the Warden from trying to use it in fear of getting interrupted, but of course this is useless against all Warden's past rep 20.

Anyway I hope this response sounds like it's coming from someone sensible, all this to say that there really is no counter except by playing Warden yourself or another bash character. I love to play low tiers like Aramusha and Centurion, but I recently switched to being a Warden/Vortiger main, duel winrate shot up from 59% to 76% and I have never looked back. In the end, it's better to win most of the time rather than lose all the time.

Final statement: If you want to win/counter cancer, you have to choose Warden or Black Prior because there are no counters. Using anything else will just get you frustrated. That's just the way it is.

[Gaser]

Just keep a but of space between you and the warden when you are not attacking.

Half of the mind game gone.

Wardens only way to close the gab in guard mode is dash top heavy which is a free parry.

[kudo]

Originally posted by Gaser:

Just keep a but of space between you and the warden when you are not attacking.

Half of the mind game gone.

Wardens only way to close the gab in guard mode is dash top heavy which is a free parry.

You're right but the problem is that only the amateur Wardens will do this without knowing it's a free parry. It's like those orochi's that do dodge attack from neutral. They're just... inexperienced. I hope.

And what if you need to close the distance too? This tactic works for characters like JJ, Nobushi and Shugoki, but say you're using a character like Berserker or Aramusha. It's basically turtling. Is that a counter? In its own way, I guess. But aside from tournament level play and disgusting high rep, most casual players don't want to have a staring contest. (usually...)

[Gaser]

Originally posted by 🎵kudo:

Originally posted by Gaser:

Just keep a but of space between you and the warden when you are not attacking.

Half of the mind game gone.

Wardens only way to close the gab in guard mode is dash top heavy which is a free parry.

You're right but the problem is that only the amateur Wardens will do this without knowing it's a free parry. It's like those orochi's that do dodge attack from neutral. They're just... inexperienced. I hope.

And what if you need to close the distance too? This tactic works for characters like JJ, Nobushi and Shugoki, but say you're using a character like Berserker or Aramusha. It's basically turtling. Is that a counter? In its own way, I guess. But aside from tournament level play and disgusting high rep, most casual players don't want to have a staring contest. (usually...)

Since when is walking / dashing backwards turtling?

[kudo]

Originally posted by Gaser:

Since when is walking / dashing backwards turtling?

Obviously turtling is defined differently depending on the tolerance of the person. You could get by simply by saying "playing defensively". My point is that if you're creating a distance between you and the Warden, sure, the Warden can't get you with his bash, but how are you supposed to get any damage in? Especially if you're using a character that doesn't have reach like JJ and Nobushi do, etc etc? It's true that the Warden can only close the distance with breakthrough, but what your own offensive? How do YOU close the distance? In the end, you can't do any damage at that distance, and so it only works as a stall.

The moment you close the distance to deal some damage, shoulder bash is fair game again.

[друг (los siento)]

Originally posted by 🎵kudo:

I think most people will tell you that the only way to effectively counter Warden's shoulder bash is to use another equally disgusting bash character. I know this isn't a good answer, but this is what people will say. Vortiger and Conqueror are good bets for this, even if you don't want to play them.
A lot of other Warden defenders will say "learn the mind games", of course. And here you are, having fully dissected everything Warden can do off a shoulder bash, and it's still not enough. Warden is the only character in the game that has a move that isn't 100% telegraphed, so the flaw in this argument is asking why is it that Warden gets the exclusive privilege of having the only true 50/50 move in the game?
If the Warden is bad, light spam or heavy/feint/gb mixups are usually enough to intimidate the Warden from trying to use it in fear of getting interrupted, but of course this is useless against all Warden's past rep 20.

Anyway I hope this response sounds like it's coming from someone sensible, all this to say that there really is no counter except by playing Warden yourself or another bash character. I love to play low tiers like Aramusha and Centurion, but I recently switched to being a Warden/Vortiger main, duel winrate shot up from 59% to 76% and I have never looked back. In the end, it's better to win most of the time rather than lose all the time.

Final statement: If you want to win/counter cancer, you have to choose Warden or Black Prior because there are no counters. Using anything else will just get you frustrated. That's just the way it is.

I main Conq, but everytime I attack, wether its a bash or just a regular attacks, he just dodges and SB + double lights. The fact that conq cant hard feint like other just makes it worse. And when Im not attacking, im just playing a guessing game with him

[Gaser]

Originally posted by друг:

Originally posted by 🎵kudo:

I think most people will tell you that the only way to effectively counter Warden's shoulder bash is to use another equally disgusting bash character. I know this isn't a good answer, but this is what people will say. Vortiger and Conqueror are good bets for this, even if you don't want to play them.
A lot of other Warden defenders will say "learn the mind games", of course. And here you are, having fully dissected everything Warden can do off a shoulder bash, and it's still not enough. Warden is the only character in the game that has a move that isn't 100% telegraphed, so the flaw in this argument is asking why is it that Warden gets the exclusive privilege of having the only true 50/50 move in the game?
If the Warden is bad, light spam or heavy/feint/gb mixups are usually enough to intimidate the Warden from trying to use it in fear of getting interrupted, but of course this is useless against all Warden's past rep 20.

Anyway I hope this response sounds like it's coming from someone sensible, all this to say that there really is no counter except by playing Warden yourself or another bash character. I love to play low tiers like Aramusha and Centurion, but I recently switched to being a Warden/Vortiger main, duel winrate shot up from 59% to 76% and I have never looked back. In the end, it's better to win most of the time rather than lose all the time.

Final statement: If you want to win/counter cancer, you have to choose Warden or Black Prior because there are no counters. Using anything else will just get you frustrated. That's just the way it is.

I main Conq, but everytime I attack, wether its a bash or just a regular attacks, he just dodges and SB + double lights. The fact that conq cant hard feint like other just makes it worse. And when Im not attacking, im just playing a guessing game with him

You know he can cancel with his full block?

[друг (los siento)]

Originally posted by Gaser:

Just keep a but of space between you and the warden when you are not attacking.

Half of the mind game gone.

Wardens only way to close the gab in guard mode is dash top heavy which is a free parry.

But I usually play a closed ranged heroes, such as conq and aramusha. Creating space between me and the warden means Im limiting my chances to attack (especially for aramusha)

[друг (los siento)]

Originally posted by Gaser:

Originally posted by друг:

I main Conq, but everytime I attack, wether its a bash or just a regular attacks, he just dodges and SB + double lights. The fact that conq cant hard feint like other just makes it worse. And when Im not attacking, im just playing a guessing game with him

You know he can cancel with his full block?

I know but its not as fast as regular feint

[Zenith]

just dodge lol

[друг (los siento)]

Originally posted by Jcorella:

just dodge lol

Outstanding

[Stret]

make reads

a read you have to make id a read warden has to make

also, unlock rolling exists

[76561198048978863]

Originally posted by Stret1311:

make reads

a read you have to make id a read warden has to make

also, unlock rolling exists

Against most heroes, Warden has approximately 2-3 times higher chance of dealing damage and he deals high damage. You need to make reads or guess 3 times better than a Warden player to win against him.

Unlock rolling cost a lot of stamina while Warden uses almost no stamina. Rolling is not a counter.

[Stret]

Originally posted by ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°):

Originally posted by Stret1311:

make reads

a read you have to make id a read warden has to make

also, unlock rolling exists

Against most heroes, Warden has approximately 2-3 times higher chance of dealing damage and he deals high damage. You need to make reads or guess 3 times better than a Warden player to win against him.

Unlock rolling cost a lot of stamina while Warden uses almost no stamina. Rolling is not a counter.

why does it matter, it resets the fight and you cant run OOS at 1v1 if you have a brain



the only reason rolling isnt a counter is becase VB exists but you need to at least do the foward dodge on read