What turtling actually means

[Cracken]

I see the term thrown around a bit too much. Most likely because not many people know what it means, so here is an example.

Turtling is the act of refraining from performing any offensive manoeuvres, and instead, only playing defensively.

Basically, always blocking, never attacking.

Now with that being said, if someone you are fighting stops attacking if for a second or two, they are NOT turtling.
Just because your opponent doesn't attack at every opportunity doesn't mean they are turtling.

If someone attacks, is parried, then hit down to low health and don't immediately attack, they aren't turtling. It would make no sense to attack just after doing so made them lose most of their heath, it's called adapting.

Attacking when at high health is less likely to result in a death, whereas attacking less, or avoiding attacking altogether, at low health is highly likely to result in a death.

I'm not sure why people want others to open themselves up for a free punish, and then complain when the opponent plays around their obvious expectations.
Seems pointless to me.

[Oliverserker]

So they suddenly stop attacking and starts to only block and parry-fish. What's that called?

[Cracken]

引用自 Oliverserker：

So they suddenly stop attacking and starts to only block and parry-fish. What's that called?

That would be called you not using your mix-ups properly...or playing a character that doesn't have any.

[CRIES IN AD MORTEM]

[Oliverserker]

It's not a mix-up if they go from attacking to suddenly full turtle until they win/die.

[Cracken]

引用自 Oliverserker：

It's not a mix-up if they go from attacking to suddenly full turtle until they win/die.

I said that would be YOU not using YOUR mix-ups properly to counter their defence.

[voiddp]

Properly fighting vs turtles includes using openers. UB hits, or feintable bashes that force turtle to react.
But some heroes just don't have them lol, mix up as much as you want, but if all that can be beaten by just blocking or unpunishable dodging, it us not your fault it is game balance fault

[Oliverserker]

引用自 Sir Cracken The Nobel Knight：

引用自 Oliverserker：

It's not a mix-up if they go from attacking to suddenly full turtle until they win/die.

I said that would be YOU not using YOUR mix-ups properly to counter their defence.

Mixups? Dude, if someone is good at blocking, dodging and parrying, none of your attacks would connect. It doesn't matter if you have a dozen mix-up options if attacks are telegraphed.

Guardbreak also doesn't help because you only need to press 1 button to cancel the guardbreak.

What Ubi needs to do is have 2 guardbreak buttons and turtles have to guess which guardbreak button you pushed to cancel it. Because right now, the meta is turtle and parry-fish.

[Cracken]

引用自 Oliverserker：

引用自 Sir Cracken The Nobel Knight：

I said that would be YOU not using YOUR mix-ups properly to counter their defence.

Mixups? Dude, if someone is good at blocking, dodging and parrying, none of your attacks would connect. It doesn't matter if you have a dozen mix-up options if attacks are telegraphed.

Guardbreak also doesn't help because you only need to press 1 button to cancel the guardbreak.

What Ubi needs to do is have 2 guardbreak buttons and turtles have to guess which guardbreak button you pushed to cancel it. Because right now, the meta is turtle and parry-fish.

Are you saying that the game would be better if attacks weren't telegraphed?
I'm sorry, but that just proves that you know very little about how fighting games work.

In a good fighting game, the game is won by the player with the better reflexes and predictions.
For Honor obviously has a long way to go until it is fully balanced, but its current problems are mainly around most of its characters not being viable compared to the top tier ones (Glad, WL, Shaman)

What makes the cast "good" and "bad" is entirely based on how good their mix-ups are.
If all mix-ups could be instantly countered as you say, then why is this the case?

[Skearn]

turtling doesnt mean that a turtle cant poke its head out to bite some1:) thats what the turtles do in this game, they wait for openings and parries so they can bite you and retract before you can do ♥♥♥♥ about it:D

[Nolo Contendere]

引用自 Skearn：

turtling doesnt mean that a turtle cant poke its head out to bite some1:) thats what the turtles do in this game, they wait for openings and parries so they can bite you and retract before you can do ♥♥♥♥ about it:D

so you mean playing characters like lawbringer the way they were literally designed is a bad thing?

huh, guess you learn something new every day.

[Skearn]

引用自 Oliverserker：

引用自 Sir Cracken The Nobel Knight：

I said that would be YOU not using YOUR mix-ups properly to counter their defence.

Mixups? Dude, if someone is good at blocking, dodging and parrying, none of your attacks would connect. It doesn't matter if you have a dozen mix-up options if attacks are telegraphed.

Guardbreak also doesn't help because you only need to press 1 button to cancel the guardbreak.

What Ubi needs to do is have 2 guardbreak buttons and turtles have to guess which guardbreak button you pushed to cancel it. Because right now, the meta is turtle and parry-fish.

i dont know how long youve been in this game, but the turtle meta is nowhere near as strong as it used to be:D

seasons 1-2-3 we're all ridden with turtles and only after that did it start to lessen with the highlander breaking ice. after season 4 the game started its approach to what it is now wich so far is a massive improvement, even for a goki player like me:D
currently the game promotes knowledge and skill at the same time but not many ppl see it like that sadly.

mandatory "where my fecking rework?!" :D

but yea to what you said about guardbreaks, instead of 2 buttons they have alrdy tightent the timing for it in the past and i dont necessarily think its a bad idea to make it even more tight, but the thing is that theres a visual aspect to timing cgb and i dont mean the symbol for it.
the moment some1 touches you is the timing for it and thats how it always will be, there will always be a specific moment in the process used as a visual aid in order to do it right consistently, therefor the issue cannot be fixed because of that.

sidenote: in the past a parry gave you a guaranteed guardbreak and when that got gauged out it practically cut of a limb of the turtle meta leaving a somewhat gimped version of what it once was.
goki back then was ALOT harder to play with the same kit we have now on goki, staring contests taking a whole facking match because if some1 parried the other would be going off the ledge guaranteed, im really happy thats a thing of the past:D

[Skearn]

引用自 Nolo Contendere：

引用自 Skearn：

turtling doesnt mean that a turtle cant poke its head out to bite some1:) thats what the turtles do in this game, they wait for openings and parries so they can bite you and retract before you can do ♥♥♥♥ about it:D

so you mean playing characters like lawbringer the way they were literally designed is a bad thing?

huh, guess you learn something new every day.

mate i didnt even say the word bad and i didnt suggest that either.

read that text literally and dont pull things out of ur arse.
if i said it would be bad i wouldnt be using happy smiley's either :3

[Oliverserker]

引用自 Sir Cracken The Nobel Knight：

引用自 Oliverserker：

Mixups? Dude, if someone is good at blocking, dodging and parrying, none of your attacks would connect. It doesn't matter if you have a dozen mix-up options if attacks are telegraphed.

Guardbreak also doesn't help because you only need to press 1 button to cancel the guardbreak.

What Ubi needs to do is have 2 guardbreak buttons and turtles have to guess which guardbreak button you pushed to cancel it. Because right now, the meta is turtle and parry-fish.

Are you saying that the game would be better if attacks weren't telegraphed?
I'm sorry, but that just proves that you know very little about how fighting games work.

In a good fighting game, the game is won by the player with the better reflexes and predictions.
For Honor obviously has a long way to go until it is fully balanced, but its current problems are mainly around most of its characters not being viable compared to the top tier ones (Glad, WL, Shaman)

What makes the cast "good" and "bad" is entirely based on how good their mix-ups are.
If all mix-ups could be instantly countered as you say, then why is this the case?

If only all characters had good mixups and openers no?

Don't compare For Honor's telegraph of attacks with other fighting games. Actual fighting games don't have big arrows that turn red in the direction the opponents attack.

The good thing about For Honor is that you can still practice and lab against DLC characters that you haven't bought. But that won't help you if your main is trash tier against an OP DLC hero

[Cracken]

引用自 Oliverserker：

引用自 Sir Cracken The Nobel Knight：

Are you saying that the game would be better if attacks weren't telegraphed?
I'm sorry, but that just proves that you know very little about how fighting games work.

In a good fighting game, the game is won by the player with the better reflexes and predictions.
For Honor obviously has a long way to go until it is fully balanced, but its current problems are mainly around most of its characters not being viable compared to the top tier ones (Glad, WL, Shaman)

What makes the cast "good" and "bad" is entirely based on how good their mix-ups are.
If all mix-ups could be instantly countered as you say, then why is this the case?

If only all characters had good mixups and openers no?

Don't compare For Honor's telegraph of attacks with other fighting games. Actual fighting games don't have big arrows that turn red in the direction the opponents attack.

The good thing about For Honor is that you can still practice and lab against DLC characters that you haven't bought. But that won't help you if your main is trash tier against an OP DLC hero

You've completely ignored what I said.
No idea how I can get your attention now.

[Oliverserker]

引用自 Sir Cracken The Nobel Knight：

引用自 Oliverserker：

If only all characters had good mixups and openers no?

Don't compare For Honor's telegraph of attacks with other fighting games. Actual fighting games don't have big arrows that turn red in the direction the opponents attack.

The good thing about For Honor is that you can still practice and lab against DLC characters that you haven't bought. But that won't help you if your main is trash tier against an OP DLC hero

You've completely ignored what I said.
No idea how I can get your attention now.

You keep talking about mixups making them seem like these unseeable attacks but the red guard directions telegraph them heavily which other fighting games don't have.

[Knight Commander Martellus]

引用自 Sir Cracken The Nobel Knight：

I see the term thrown around a bit too much. Most likely because not many people know what it means, so here is an example.

Turtling is the act of refraining from performing any offensive manoeuvres, and instead, only playing defensively.

Basically, always blocking, never attacking.

Now with that being said, if someone you are fighting stops attacking if for a second or two, they are NOT turtling.
Just because your opponent doesn't attack at every opportunity doesn't mean they are turtling.

If someone attacks, is parried, then hit down to low health and don't immediately attack, they aren't turtling. It would make no sense to attack just after doing so made them lose most of their heath, it's called adapting.

Attacking when at high health is less likely to result in a death, whereas attacking less, or avoiding attacking altogether, at low health is highly likely to result in a death.

I'm not sure why people want others to open themselves up for a free punish, and then complain when the opponent plays around their obvious expectations.
Seems pointless to me.

Hince an actual turtle, I think the species kinda explains it'self for us.