For Honor

For Honor

檢視統計資料:
Morehouse928 2018 年 10 月 31 日 上午 11:36
The Core Problem With Breach
I want to start off by saying that Breach is my personal favorite 4v4 gamemode. I prefer more tactical games over run around arcade style and I feel Breach is designed for people like me. Lately however, I’ve found my personal enjoyment of Breach is starting to drain significantly. After giving it some thought, I realized that I don’t have nearly as much fun on Attackers than I do Defenders. I pondered why I felt this way and I came to one conclusion: Defenders have it easier than Attackers, why? Because death doesn’t have as much an impact on Defenders as it does Attackers.

If a defender dies in a place they can’t be revived from or are executed that’s what, a couple seconds to grab a drink and think over what went wrong and then respawn like nothing happened. If an attacker dies, they must worry about getting executed or if their teammates are nearby to revive them, and if they can defeat the defenders to even get the revive. And even if they do succeed at killing all defenders on the point, I’ve noticed more often than not that at least one defender with full health that was killed only a few seconds ago has showed up again and usually kills said teammate or delays them further until more show up forcing a respawn.

I think the best way to show this is to show how many failure states (note: this is for who loses the entire match, not a section) each side have and compare that to Dominion:

Attackers:
  • All lives are expended
  • Ram is destroyed
  • Time runs out
Defenders:
  • Commander is killed

Let’s compare that to Dominion:

Attackers:
  • Team is wiped during Breaking phase
  • Time runs out during breaking phase due to fewer members (I’ve only seen this a few times so I’m not too sure on this)

Defenders:
  • Team is wiped during Breaking phase
  • Time runs out during breaking phase due to fewer members (I’ve only seen this a few times so I’m not too sure on this)

In dominion, both sides are even due to the fact they both have the same failure conditions. Compare that to breach and Attackers have WAY more to deal with in terms of failure states than Defenders. Therefore attackers generally lose Breach more, which is what we saw in the open test, Defenders had a higher win rate than attackers. I know there are a multitude of other conditions such as the deathball meta, turtling at higher tier, player skill, bots, etc. that help determine who wins in certain scenarios. And my analysis is NOT 100% looking at every detail of why a team fails> I’m looking at who has more to deal with in terms of failure states. And right now Attackers have way more on their plate than defenders.

Possible Solutions (note: not all of the need to be done):

Make Death Matter More for The Defenders
  • Decrease revive speed (Don’t know about you guys but revive speed across the board seems quicker in Breach than Dominion)
  • Increase respawn time (I know people are already complaining about how long Breach is, but the fact of the matter is a 15sec respawn time is short compared to how long combat usually takes to finish, this should hopefully force defenders to play more tactically)

Add A Failure State For the Defenders to Make Them More Even
  • Make Defenders have lives just like attackers (this I feel might be the best option to test out on a test server, as it would force defenders to play more tactically and carefully just like attackers)

Remove a Failure State from the Attackers
  • Get rid of lives all together (This one I’m not in favor of because I fear doing this will make Breach into Dominion but larger and longer)

I’m curious to hear your thoughts on Breach and whether or not these changes would help balance Breach further.
最後修改者:Morehouse928; 2018 年 10 月 31 日 上午 11:38
< >
目前顯示第 31-45 則留言,共 45
| TajMahBalls | 2018 年 11 月 1 日 上午 8:41 
引用自 Skearn
引用自 Lord_of_Death
it dos and yes the bastillia should kill heros in onehit i dont see why they dont
they should at the very least do more damage than they do currently
(assuming bastilia means ballista)

can ballistae even hurt the ram btw?
Yes they do but it's so small it's not worth it.
[ZER]YOG 2018 年 11 月 1 日 上午 8:58 
Bots know exactly when the Flag is ready to pick up.... Players dont.... make an Audio Notification like "the enemy team is breakin" .... " the flag is now on the Battlefield"....
Razz 2018 年 11 月 1 日 上午 9:17 
main problem is we know who will win the match after 5 min, not fun at all when we know we will loose in 20 min
最後修改者:Razz; 2018 年 11 月 1 日 上午 9:19
Caê 2018 年 11 月 1 日 上午 9:34 
Breach mode need a surrender option
Derrame 2018 年 11 月 1 日 上午 9:43 
No, it's not easier for defenders.
Attackers capture a point and it stays captured forever
if defenders loose a point (archers) they cannot capture it back

archers are extremely useful, they kill defenders or defender archers kill attackers pikers

defenders don't worry about spawn points but if they loose someting it stays lost.

and if they get executed they loose lot of time

if the attacking team can break the first game with few losses, they get to the commander with many respawn points

the mode is pretty balanced, but in diferent ways for attacking team and defender team, each team has strengths and weaknesses


Derrame 2018 年 11 月 1 日 上午 9:44 
main problem is we know who will win the match after 5 min, not fun at all when we know we will loose in 20 min
Wrong, anything can happen,
you can loose almost all your respawn points before the first gate and break it and then get some reinforcements and the break the second and kill the commander
or yu can get with 35 spawn points to the commnader and get killed over and over again

it's totally unpredictable

i like this mode

but we need new maps asap
Justiciar- 2018 年 11 月 1 日 上午 10:01 
It is really just objective-based PvP.

In other games, they just do two games, switching, and then declaring the winner based on which team got the farthest.

But they did it as one game instead, which is rather odd. No doubt there will be balance issues for a long time.
Morehouse928 2018 年 11 月 1 日 上午 10:24 
While I'm happy to see people discussing my post and Breach, I can't help but feel most kinda missed the point I was trying to make. I wasn't talking about minions, the commander, the ballista etc. Although these ARE problems that should be addressed as well.

My post is talking about the design philosophy behind Breach and its problems due to the fact that the Attackers have THREE different ways of losing whereas defenders only have ONE. The reason I didn't address other issues is because:

A: People have already addressed them in ways that I felt my two cents wouldn't add anything extra to that conversation.
B: I feel as though refining the design philosophy behind Breach COULD solve many of these problems or make them more managable for everyone.

I didn't factor in player behavior in my analysis because player behavior is too unpredictable to really nail down those issues. I held player skill and everything else equal as it would just have been a headache to factor that it as well. Ceteris paribus if you will (all other variables held equal).

Though I am curious to those who said Attackers have it easier than Defenders why you feel this way? Is it because of the players on each team having differing players which WOULD effect team performance? Or is it because you disagree with my philosophy?

Overall, I'm very happy to see people discussing Breach in hopes to improve it.
boomcome 2018 年 11 月 1 日 上午 10:37 
Breach is pretty much a payload type gamemode.
You push the ram through two checkpoints with an added team boss fight.

There is a big timer of 30 minutes.

There are "obsctacles" along the way that serve to slow down the ram. Which slows down the match until the attackers break through.

There are attacker tickets to serve as a means to impose a need of urgency to get passed the checkpoints. In addition to the tickets, there is a hefty respawn time to reward revives. This again, slows down the game somewhat.

The defenders have too much time on their side to defend the area.

Then there's the matter of playing with rando's with no clue how the game works.
Tushonk 2018 年 11 月 1 日 上午 10:38 
Conquered points can't be converted back to the defender side so each archer point is critical. It's also easier to kill the commander than defending him (thanks to the boosts and guardian boost and ballista).
Limited spawns are not really a problem unless you get a team where everyone fights alone and respawn immediately. Plus you get a bunch of tickets after the first gate which is not hard to break. After the first gate the 4th point usually really easy to conquer because the defenders most likely out of position.
I think I have more fun playing as an attacker too.
[MCS] Yoritomo 2018 年 11 月 1 日 上午 10:52 
Talking bout equal skill on both teams and both are on voice chat.

the meta of defender is obviously more easy.
But with lock of archerpoints, +tickets and balista that kills commander easy the attackers are in advance if they dont make major mistakes.
They just need to revive and stay together. Cause of the thremendous respawn delay from defenders they can achive critical advantages.
Of course only if all know what to do and when.

Flaw is the pre-decide what result in high frustration. You can smell your win/lose 20 Minutes before the game really ends. 20 Minutes are a very long time in a beat em up game.
最後修改者:[MCS] Yoritomo; 2018 年 11 月 1 日 上午 10:57
Justiciar- 2018 年 11 月 1 日 上午 11:23 
I think because of the sophistication of objectives, you really need a premade team for Breach.
最後修改者:Justiciar-; 2018 年 11 月 1 日 下午 12:24
[MCS] Yoritomo 2018 年 11 月 1 日 下午 12:55 
premade is recomendet on breach but it works with randos too if they have xp. Premade vs randos is a spit in face. I cant belive Ubi made this noob mistake.
Justiciar- 2018 年 11 月 1 日 下午 2:42 
Randos unfortunately Amiga come with Lords the added Of consequence of The accosting their Rising team of Sun the limited respawns.

My sentence might not make sense. I may have been distracted by a profile pic.
Skearn 2018 年 11 月 1 日 下午 2:51 
引用自 Ĵ∪s†iℭaℜ
Randos unfortunately Amiga come with Lords the added Of consequence of The accosting their Rising team of Sun the limited respawns.

My sentence might not make sense. I may have been distracted by a profile pic.
*starts bleeding profusely* im daijobu x.x
< >
目前顯示第 31-45 則留言,共 45
每頁顯示: 1530 50

張貼日期: 2018 年 10 月 31 日 上午 11:36
回覆: 45