Orochi OP?

[GreyOathDragon]

I'm more interested in hearing other people's viewpoints(or explaining how what I say is wrong) but I sort of want to just give my take on Orochi's. Even if admittably I haven't played enough yet to maybe really make this call.

So I mainly say this after repeated experience with Orochi's, being that they effectively have an "unlimited" combo of light attacks, similar to how Conqueror can constantly throw out lights. However while Conqueror is quite slow, Orochi is blindingly fast and I find it far more difficult to actually count in any useful way. Again I do suspect that Orochi is a noobstomper class rather than blatantly overpowered. But well I suppose I'd like to say my main complaint is the unlimited light combo rather than the evasive abilities of the class such as dodge attacks. (Though I believe, like with a Kensei you can get around that by feinting heavies, which I've employed with some success.)

So while there are other things that can be called OP(Centurian and Valk with some very powerful combos. Warden's with vortex spam,etc.) I do think that the most prominent thing that stands out for Orochi is you can't simply stop these combos by attacking or what not, nor is there any lull in the combos. Particularly with Warden and Centurian being that there is a gap in the damage they deal and if you know what they do you can somewhat counter it(attacking them before they charge, and counter guardbreaking respectively), and with Valk while they get a guarenteed overhead heavy it then comes to dealing with their next move, as well as being able to backdash/backstep out of the tripping sweep. With Orochi I find my issue has been, unless you can manage to change guard in time to the next attack the combo just keeps going once it has begun, with no ability to dodge out of it or interrupt it with your own attacks.

Again if any more experienced players would want to tell me what I'm doing wrong(and maybe explain where I am wrong in how I view these other classes) go for it, I'd be happy to attempt to actually learn how to both counter Orochi spam and make Orochi main's have a bad day when I encounter them. Again feel free to give your entire opinion on Orochi's or even other heroes which I've drawn some comparison too here. Maybe say what you think changes to said heroes should be if that is within your fancy. (I'm going to avoid that personally for now however.)

[Sammy M.F Bananas]

The Orochi is not OP, hes just got a busted meta that youll have to learn. Like valks spamming the knock over combo, once you learn it you can destroy them.

Orochi is squishy, land a parry or two, dole out some punishment, and if youre lucky he will get exhausted, then just push em over and drop the hammer. If your new pick a tank/van character you can eat some of those lights and parry the next one, just watch out for heavies and windups.

Note- their guard break distance is extremely lacking, you'll see inexperienced ones coming short all the time

[Jester]

learn it he ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ easy to beat

[FoxOnTheFront]

Yeah don’t try to parry the light spam...just block it. And then parry a second one or when you feel comfortable predicting it. But otherwise just focus on blocking (also works well for the armushi spam)

[GreyOathDragon]

Sammy, would you have any recommendations on how to well, learn to parry them with a bit more ease? (I tend to have issues keeping up, maybe a fault of my reaction time being measurable with a calender).

Meanwhile Jestor, that's a lot less helpful, if you want to say he is easy to beat, list the reasons why and explain how to maybe beat them then rather than just "learn it". That'd be a lot better thank you.

For the matter, I see Fox, again what I said the first time around sort of applies, I have an issue keeping up I suppose and again can't keep up in speed.

[JKArtorias]

Orochi's spam is in no way op.

She has 500 ms lights like Conqueror while having a delayable 2nd light which is 400 ms (Delay means making it 333) but of course its only 2nd lights and her second light from top is guaranteed meaning its only valid if you throw side lights or heavies. Meaning no, Orochi is not faster than Conqueror unless you count a 2nd light in a combo.

Orochi has her riptide strike which can be countered by anyone and if you bait the riptide strike you get a heavy.

Then there's storm rush which comes from any direction but can be interrupted. Which goes both ways she can cancel and parry or deflect, but not many people do that. Since to interrupt it you're using a 500 ms attack. If you have a hyper armor attack you can decide to trade instead of interrupt.

Also Orochi has no unblockable and 0 oos pressure. She has a good oos punish, but no pressure.

Her zone isn't great its the standard speed.

Orochi is unique for being the speed assassin. But for being speed she isn't faster than anyone. Making her not unique at all, she's the worst assassin, lacking anything to make her special.

Her light deflect is good, while her heavy deflect if missed, which it WILL miss gives the enemy a free gb. Your punish gave them a punish instead.

Honestly everything that was special about Orochi, someone else has. Orochi is just a standard bland character. But her appearance is good. (Even if she doesn't have neko ears...)

[GreyOathDragon]

Originally posted by York:

Orochi's spam is in no way op.

She has 500 ms lights like Conqueror while having a delayable 2nd light which is 400 ms (Delay means making it 333) but of course its only 2nd lights and her second light from top is guaranteed meaning its only valid if you throw side lights or heavies. Meaning no, Orochi is not faster than Conqueror unless you count a 2nd light in a combo.

Orochi has her riptide strike which can be countered by anyone and if you bait the riptide strike you get a heavy.

Then there's storm rush which comes from any direction but can be interrupted. Which goes both ways she can cancel and parry or deflect, but not many people do that. Since to interrupt it you're using a 500 ms attack. If you have a hyper armor attack you can decide to trade instead of interrupt.

Also Orochi has no unblockable and 0 oos pressure. She has a good oos punish, but no pressure.

Her zone isn't great its the standard speed.

Orochi is unique for being the speed assassin. But for being speed she isn't faster than anyone. Making her not unique at all, she's the worst assassin, lacking anything to make her special.

Her light deflect is good, while her heavy deflect if missed, which it WILL miss gives the enemy a free gb. Your punish gave them a punish instead.

Honestly everything that was special about Orochi, someone else has. Orochi is just a standard bland character. But her appearance is good. (Even if she doesn't have neko ears...)

I've read through this, so she is not faster than Conq?(Odd, I can deal with Conq spam yet not Orochi... which I guess might be due to something else?). But I see, either way I'm just going to look to improving dealing with the light spam for the time being and learn how to parry it more easily, again if you have suggestions on how to necessarily improve here it'd be appreciated.

[Sammy M.F Bananas]

Originally posted by Toxico/Waste Incendio:

Sammy, would you have any recommendations on how to well, learn to parry them with a bit more ease? (I tend to have issues keeping up, maybe a fault of my reaction time being measurable with a calender).

Meanwhile Jestor, that's a lot less helpful, if you want to say he is easy to beat, list the reasons why and explain how to maybe beat them then rather than just "learn it". That'd be a lot better thank you.

For the matter, I see Fox, again what I said the first time around sort of applies, I have an issue keeping up I suppose and again can't keep up in speed.

I went to training, set an various heroes i was having issues with to spam their combos, didnt leave till i was parrying everything. Also, like I and another person said, parrying orochis first light is super risky.

Orochi was an issue for me too, especially when they came in pairs. Just keep at it.

Ohh, the pros will prefer to fight you solo though (more renown)

[JKArtorias]

Originally posted by Toxico/Waste Incendio:

Originally posted by York:

Orochi's spam is in no way op.

She has 500 ms lights like Conqueror while having a delayable 2nd light which is 400 ms (Delay means making it 333) but of course its only 2nd lights and her second light from top is guaranteed meaning its only valid if you throw side lights or heavies. Meaning no, Orochi is not faster than Conqueror unless you count a 2nd light in a combo.

Orochi has her riptide strike which can be countered by anyone and if you bait the riptide strike you get a heavy.

Then there's storm rush which comes from any direction but can be interrupted. Which goes both ways she can cancel and parry or deflect, but not many people do that. Since to interrupt it you're using a 500 ms attack. If you have a hyper armor attack you can decide to trade instead of interrupt.

Also Orochi has no unblockable and 0 oos pressure. She has a good oos punish, but no pressure.

Her zone isn't great its the standard speed.

Orochi is unique for being the speed assassin. But for being speed she isn't faster than anyone. Making her not unique at all, she's the worst assassin, lacking anything to make her special.

Her light deflect is good, while her heavy deflect if missed, which it WILL miss gives the enemy a free gb. Your punish gave them a punish instead.

Honestly everything that was special about Orochi, someone else has. Orochi is just a standard bland character. But her appearance is good. (Even if she doesn't have neko ears...)

I've read through this, so she is not faster than Conq?(Odd, I can deal with Conq spam yet not Orochi... which I guess might be due to something else?). But I see, either way I'm just going to look to improving dealing with the light spam for the time being and learn how to parry it more easily, again if you have suggestions on how to necessarily improve here it'd be appreciated.

I'm not good at teaching, sorry. You'll just have to learn animations and what a stereotypical Orochi will do. Since you're new. I have no clue what new Orochi's will do. They don't know how to play the character yet so they'll just throw out the most random attacks that make no sense and wouldn't land unless you can't block. Sorry lol

So right now just focus on learning the attacks, since they're lights you don't need to parry them yet. Focus on learning how to block them then learn how to parry them after.

[Sammy M.F Bananas]

Originally posted by York:

Orochi's spam is in no way op.

She has 500 ms lights like Conqueror while having a delayable 2nd light which is 400 ms (Delay means making it 333) but of course its only 2nd lights and her second light from top is guaranteed meaning its only valid if you throw side lights or heavies. Meaning no, Orochi is not faster than Conqueror unless you count a 2nd light in a combo.

Orochi has her riptide strike which can be countered by anyone and if you bait the riptide strike you get a heavy.

Then there's storm rush which comes from any direction but can be interrupted. Which goes both ways she can cancel and parry or deflect, but not many people do that. Since to interrupt it you're using a 500 ms attack. If you have a hyper armor attack you can decide to trade instead of interrupt.

Also Orochi has no unblockable and 0 oos pressure. She has a good oos punish, but no pressure.

Her zone isn't great its the standard speed.

Orochi is unique for being the speed assassin. But for being speed she isn't faster than anyone. Making her not unique at all, she's the worst assassin, lacking anything to make her special.

Her light deflect is good, while her heavy deflect if missed, which it WILL miss gives the enemy a free gb. Your punish gave them a punish instead.

Honestly everything that was special about Orochi, someone else has. Orochi is just a standard bland character. But her appearance is good. (Even if she doesn't have neko ears...)

I think orochi shines when they use their skills right, Orochis scream has won me a few 2v1s

[GreyOathDragon]

Thanks to all that have given useful feedback so far. I'll try and learn from this and learn to deal with Orochi's from what you've said here. It is greatly appreciated.

[Transcendent]

Orochi is, like Sammy said, very squishy and can be punished easily by almost any hero. Warden and Kensei especially.

[Sammy M.F Bananas]

Originally posted by Transcendent:

Orochi is, like Sammy said, very squishy and can be punished easily by almost any hero. Warden and Kensei especially.

Kensei is disgusting at handling orochi's. His range is good and he has similar mobility.

[Transcendent]

Originally posted by Sammy Mother ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Bananas:

Kensei is disgusting at handling orochi's. His range is good and he has similar mobility.

In my experience, Kensei can punish almost anything Orochi can do, so much so that he, along with Warden, is my preferred counter-pick for Orochi.

[Mullet Wojak]

Orochi isn't necessarily faster, they just FEEL faster. The animations are a lot less obvious then a Conqueror's, where he has a very obvious wind up of a one armed mace, and the Orochi makes more of a professional slight movement with both of their arms in relatively the same position, and in addition the second light accounts for it since it does have a lot of significance to the overall feel your opponent gives off when throwing out lights left and right.

Data wise, the Orochi isn't overpowered at all, but to someone not familiar with said data and/or with the typical way an Orochi may approach you, it's very dizzying, and an Orochi can be psychologically OP.

Orochi, compared to most other classes, has the smallest two-handed weapon in the game, and it is easily obstructed by the flashy hud, the beautiful background, that stupid AI creep in the background, and your eyes could easily lose focus on their actual attack. Combined with the fact that their arm movements aren't as drastic as other characters swinging around weapons with more force such as the Centurion, the Beserker, the Shaman, basically almost every other hero in the game has fairly theatrical exaggerated movements, while the Orochi's light attacks are more realistic in terms of sword fighting. The only thing you really have to go off of, is the HUD.

I mean that's my best guess, because otherwise the numbers are completely wrong and everyone is stupid. Which is a possibility, but a very very very unlikely one. I have had the same issue on console but looking at the numbers, I kept shaking my head and going "No, that's impossible! They feel broken!" Even coming back into PC after a 6 month hiatus, I STILL have a bit of difficulty trying to parry an Orochi because of their damn animations. So I guess the long term solution is to play against more of them, and maybe even try out Orochi yourself just to see how it looks on the other side so you get an idea of what a typical Orochi would do.

Once again I'm no psychology or kinesthetic major to back this up, but I think this would make for an interesting topic to study. Why the hell do they FEEL broken?

[peppermint hollows]

Since nobody else has mentioned it, I'm going to copy and paste another post I made (albeit slightly modified) recently just because it may or may not be relevant:

If you're playing as an assassin, you may have a lot more trouble with a light spamming orochi than if you're playing as any other hero. If you're not playing an assassin hero you can safely ignore this, but I just figured it might be worth bringing up since you didn't mention what heroes you're playing.

Reflex guard sucks and is buggy, and against characters like Aramusha or a light spamming Orochi, 99% of the time you can pretty much just say you've already lost before the fight is over. There are tons of complaints about this and lots of video examples of reflex guard simply failing to guard.

https://old.reddit.com/r/forhonor/comments/9akqb1/overly_common_problems_with_reflex_guard/