This Game isn't designed to be fun.

[Paranochat]

Unlike a lot of multiplayer games, this one doesn't do anything to lower players' frustration, in fact, it actually does everything it can to increase it.

That might seem weird, but managning player's frustration is very important in keeping a healthy playerbase. I'm not talking about nerfing everything so everyone can play and win without effort, I'm talking about how some game's mechanics and rewards are designed. A game like that should feel rewarding, but even in victory, it's often frustrating.

I'll take one of the most glaring example : Ganks.
While ganking is a valid tactic to eliminate players, there's nothing about it that makes the ganked player having any kind of fun that an intensive fight should give. He's getting stunlocked to death, the time bought by the fight isn't really rewarded, and he gets executed to suffer from a respawn penalty. On top of that, even if he manages to kill one of his opponents, they can safely be revived to full health without any penalty.

(And on that topic, Revives need some rework, but I believe it's already getting looked at from what people are saying).

Another issue is the balancing of Feats. Of course I'd LOVE to have an alternative gamemode with NO feats and NO gear stats for each 4v4 gamemodes. But since we're forced to play with feats, maybe it's now time to take a look at them. Their balance is absolutely terrible, some heroes just have incredibly powerful feats while others have barely useable ones.

There are other issues of course, but I guess this post is already getting long enough. Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if someone told me that Conq and Warlord were specifically designed to be boring and frustrating to "fight" (or rather "stare at" until something happens).

This game clearly has issues with making a fun environment. That drives people away and frustrates most of the ones who stay.

Feel free to share any suggestion on how to make the game more enjoyable (without dumbing down every hero of course).

[Replicant Six]

I agree. I've never actually had this game reduce my stress levels before it only makes them shoot up to the point where I'm irretable if I don't stop playing. I've never broken a controller before in my entire life until I played For Honor.

[Bimbert]

ok i disagree with the gank part

Heres why: The obvious counter to ganks is revenge (devs made it for a reason) and in my honest opinion ganks make the over all more intense because if you take the game a serious as i do you know whats on the line, heres another obvious way to counter ganks, parrys if you play defensively and get a sweet parry others are bound to attack you, getting parryed too, the result of this varies but 80% of the time it will spook the players to back off ect ect.

but i guess this is just my exprience with diminion and other 4v4 game modes

[FoolishNinja]

Originally posted by Beve Stuscemi:

I agree. I've never actually had this game reduce my stress levels before it only makes them shoot up to the point where I'm irretable if I don't stop playing. I've never broken a controller before in my entire life until I played For Honor.

What you expect from a fighting game. They can be very stressful.

To op: i agree that some feats are really op like grenade spam. I also agree with some heroes having bad design and cheap tricks.

What to do about gank fest is, to wait for your teammates to spawn and go together with them.
Im still suprised they didnt add a forced team spawn, like spawning together so, everyone is grouped up.

[Replicant Six]

Originally posted by Foolish Ninja:

Originally posted by Beve Stuscemi:

I agree. I've never actually had this game reduce my stress levels before it only makes them shoot up to the point where I'm irretable if I don't stop playing. I've never broken a controller before in my entire life until I played For Honor.

What you expect from a fighting game. They can be very stressful.

Well designed games offer times in gameplay where stress can be reduced or let out. Not For Honor, and sitting in the menu's does not count. And I'd like to add my only times getting angry are in 4v4 game modes. In truth I don't want to play them, but they offer the most experience and therefore you can get cooler looking gear faster the more you play 4v4s. If Duels gave just as much XP I'd never touch dominion again.

[Haskeer]

Originally posted by Paranochat:

I'll take one of the most glaring example : Ganks.
While ganking is a valid tactic to eliminate players, there's nothing about it that makes the ganked player having any kind of fun that an intensive fight should give. He's getting stunlocked to death, the time bought by the fight isn't really rewarded, and he gets executed to suffer from a respawn penalty. On top of that, even if he manages to kill one of his opponents, they can safely be revived to full health without any penalty.

really bro ur ignorant about revenge

[Bimbert]

Originally posted by Beve Stuscemi:

Originally posted by Foolish Ninja:

What you expect from a fighting game. They can be very stressful.

Well designed games offer times in gameplay where stress can be reduced or let out. Not For Honor, and sitting in the menu's does not count. And I'd like to add my only times getting angry are in 4v4 game modes. In truth I don't want to play them, but they offer the most experience and therefore you can get cooler looking gear faster the more you play 4v4s. If Duels gave just as much XP I'd never touch dominion again.

i dont think war zones are made to be relaxing

see as that is what diminion is trying to get at

[Replicant Six]

Originally posted by Sgt. Spaghetti:

i dont think war zones are made to be relaxing

see as that is what diminion is trying to get at

Well the house full of monsters in the new Resident Evil isn't supposed to be relaxing either but the game takes it's breaks from the horrow.

[Haskeer]

Originally posted by Beve Stuscemi:

Originally posted by Foolish Ninja:

What you expect from a fighting game. They can be very stressful.

Well designed games offer times in gameplay where stress can be reduced or let out. Not For Honor, and sitting in the menu's does not count. And I'd like to add my only times getting angry are in 4v4 game modes. In truth I don't want to play them, but they offer the most experience and therefore you can get cooler looking gear faster the more you play 4v4s. If Duels gave just as much XP I'd never touch dominion again.

i find 1v1 more stressful than 4v4s. to each their own dood people are different

[Paranochat]

Originally posted by Haskeer:

really bro ur ignorant about revenge

Hmm yeah because Revenge is sooo well designed and powerful.

Originally posted by Sgt. Spaghetti:

ok i disagree with the gank part

Heres why: The obvious counter to ganks is revenge (devs made it for a reason) and in my honest opinion ganks make the over all more intense because if you take the game a serious as i do you know whats on the line, heres another obvious way to counter ganks, parrys if you play defensively and get a sweet parry others are bound to attack you, getting parryed too, the result of this varies but 80% of the time it will spook the players to back off ect ect.

but i guess this is just my exprience with diminion and other 4v4 game modes

Except Revenge is terribly designed. So yes, Revenge should counter ganks properly (and I don't mean that you should win them with it), but it doesn't. It's still easy to take down a player under revenge when ganking, as long as your teammates aren't just mindlessly throwing heavies over and over again during the whole thing. You can actually play safely as gankers until the Revenge wears off and finish off the player, or just use safe moves and grabs to enable free unavoidable hits.
There aren't a lot of heroes that can efficiently attack during revenge, most of them use it to survive longer (or to escape when possible). It's not meant to kill all of your agressors, but it should be a bit scary and make them back off a bit, which it fails to do in an efficient way IMO.

I understand your point, and surviving in a gank means you buy time for your team, but not much, and there's nothing to reward the player that actually can hold off his opponents. I guess revenge feels rewarding against opponent that don't know how to gank but as soon as you start facing coordinated opponents, revenge won't save you for much longer.

I honestly don't find revenge to be a rewarding mechanic currently. I think a revive nerf and a removal of respawn penalty on execution would make them less frustrating and more fair. If I'm ganked and I manage to take out one or two opponents, I want it to mean something since I'm probably going to die anyway.

They tried to take 1v1 fight mechanics and made 4v4 gamemodes with it, I understand why it feels frustrating when the core mechanics are clearly designed for 1v1 before anything else.

[FoolishNinja]

Revenge should avoid any cc effects (excluding gb)

[Bimbert]

Originally posted by Paranochat:

Originally posted by Haskeer:

really bro ur ignorant about revenge

Hmm yeah because Revenge is sooo well designed and powerful.

Originally posted by Sgt. Spaghetti:

ok i disagree with the gank part

Heres why: The obvious counter to ganks is revenge (devs made it for a reason) and in my honest opinion ganks make the over all more intense because if you take the game a serious as i do you know whats on the line, heres another obvious way to counter ganks, parrys if you play defensively and get a sweet parry others are bound to attack you, getting parryed too, the result of this varies but 80% of the time it will spook the players to back off ect ect.

but i guess this is just my exprience with diminion and other 4v4 game modes

Except Revenge is terribly designed. So yes, Revenge should counter ganks properly (and I don't mean that you should win them with it), but it doesn't. It's still easy to take down a player under revenge when ganking, as long as your teammates aren't just mindlessly throwing heavies over and over again during the whole thing. You can actually play safely as gankers until the Revenge wears off and finish off the player, or just use safe moves and grabs to enable free unavoidable hits.
There aren't a lot of heroes that can efficiently attack during revenge, most of them use it to survive longer (or to escape when possible).

I understand your point, and surviving in a gank means you buy time for your team, but not much, and there's nothing to reward the player that actually can hold off his opponents. I guess revenge feels rewarding against opponent that don't know how to gank but as soon as you start facing coordinated opponents, revenge won't save you for much longer.

I honestly don't find revenge as a rewarding mechanic currently. I think a revive nerf and a removal of respawn penalty on execution would make them less frustrating and more fair. If I'm ganked and I manage to take out one or two opponents, I want it to mean something since I'm probably going to die anyway.

They tried to take 1v1 fight mechanics and made 4v4 gamemodes with it, I understand why it feels frustrating when the core mechanics are clearly designed for 1v1 before anything else.

i also respect your point
But: you have to understand that its terribly hard to cordo in this game so most of the time they wont take the time to cordo and let revenge wear off , most ppl in this game rn are blood thirsty trying to get the kill swinging mindlessly hopeing to get a lucky shot (cause take downs earn braging rights aprently), so in the end finding a cordo team is rarer then a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ mew two

[Bimbert]

also when was there ever a "Right way to gank"

[Haskeer]

Originally posted by Paranochat:

Originally posted by Haskeer:

really bro ur ignorant about revenge

Hmm yeah because Revenge is sooo well designed and powerful.

Originally posted by Sgt. Spaghetti:

ok i disagree with the gank part

Heres why: The obvious counter to ganks is revenge (devs made it for a reason) and in my honest opinion ganks make the over all more intense because if you take the game a serious as i do you know whats on the line, heres another obvious way to counter ganks, parrys if you play defensively and get a sweet parry others are bound to attack you, getting parryed too, the result of this varies but 80% of the time it will spook the players to back off ect ect.

but i guess this is just my exprience with diminion and other 4v4 game modes

Except Revenge is terribly designed. So yes, Revenge should counter ganks properly (and I don't mean that you should win them with it), but it doesn't. It's still easy to take down a player under revenge when ganking, as long as your teammates aren't just mindlessly throwing heavies over and over again during the whole thing. You can actually play safely as gankers until the Revenge wears off and finish off the player, or just use safe moves and grabs to enable free unavoidable hits.
There aren't a lot of heroes that can efficiently attack during revenge, most of them use it to survive longer (or to escape when possible). It's not meant to kill all of your agressors, but it should be a bit scary and make them back off a bit, which it fails to do in an efficient way IMO.

I understand your point, and surviving in a gank means you buy time for your team, but not much, and there's nothing to reward the player that actually can hold off his opponents. I guess revenge feels rewarding against opponent that don't know how to gank but as soon as you start facing coordinated opponents, revenge won't save you for much longer.

I honestly don't find revenge to be a rewarding mechanic currently. I think a revive nerf and a removal of respawn penalty on execution would make them less frustrating and more fair. If I'm ganked and I manage to take out one or two opponents, I want it to mean something since I'm probably going to die anyway.

They tried to take 1v1 fight mechanics and made 4v4 gamemodes with it, I understand why it feels frustrating when the core mechanics are clearly designed for 1v1 before anything else.

you're blowing this way out of proportion. fending off ganks can be fun. 2v1 you just need to block 5-8 times and revenge. then you have a chance to win. 4v1 similar but different dynamic and more intense. any situation can be fun if you make it to be, unless you consistently suck

[Paranochat]

Originally posted by Sgt. Spaghetti:

i also respect your point
But: you have to understand that its terribly hard to cordo in this game so most of the time they wont take the time to cordo and let revenge wear off , most ppl in this game rn are blood thirsty trying to get the kill swinging mindlessly hopeing to get a lucky shot (cause take downs earn braging rights aprently), so in the end finding a cordo team is rarer then a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ mew two

Giving the killing blow actually also gives more renown, assists aren't well rewarded in comparison.

Oddly enough, I recently found people to coordinate (even if it's just basic teamwork) in ganks so one of us can land free hits. But yeah, it's not that common with random people though higher level players usually know how to gank without ruining the fight.

Originally posted by Sgt. Spaghetti:

also when was there ever a "Right way to gank"

There's actually a wrong way to gank, so there has to be a right one. Throwing heavies mindlessly is the wrong way !

[Paranochat]

Originally posted by Haskeer:

you're blowing this way out of proportion. fending off ganks can be fun. 2v1 you just need to block 5-8 times and revenge. then you have a chance to win. 4v1 similar but different dynamic and more intense. any situation can be fun if you make it to be, unless you consistently suck

Hmm no I'm not, I'm stating an opinion with details, that's not "blowing this way out of proportion".

2v1 can be fun yes, 4v1 ? Not so much. Sure if the 4 players are terrible at the game, you will fend them off, but if they're at least decent and don't just spam mindlessly, well it's not that easy, and you can discover the joys of being CC to death. Sure you'll enable revenge to survive longer, maybe you'll kill one of them, and see him getting revived. If you try to interrupt the revive you'll get punished.

I'm not saying ganks are bad, I'm just saying the game's mechanics make them clunky and unrewarding/not fun and that maybe we could make them more interesting. 1v1 and 2v1 are mostly fine IMO (well aside from the balancing issues, but that's another topic).

And ganks aren't the only frustrating thing anyway.