Who is the worst character after reworks?

[R3d_Rain+]

My money's on warden.

[Nitromethane]

1. Valk
2. Orochi
3. Warden

[yung cash register]

引用自 DarkPhoton：

引用自 Dio Brando：

people keep saying valkyrie is bad... ohoho, you just haven't seen a good valk. it's terrifying.

That's not the point though.. you can always find TERRIFYING players using the worst hero to destroy you, even if you're pretty good. Doesn't mean the hero is good. Performance of each hero is of course relative..

If that terrifying valk player had the same exact skill with gladiator he would be even MORE terrifying. That is the point. If someone was AS TERRIFYING as her in terms of skill, she will lose against them more often than not if they use a higher tier hero.

So unfortunately even if you find good players that seem very good with valk, she is still utterly trash tier.

Fair point. However, just like old zerker that needed something, most 'bad characters' are just used by players who limit themselves to a single viable tactic, such as a shugoki that only light + headbutted or waited for super armor, or an orochi that only top light + zoned.

[Necroholic]

I see people wrecking with those characters all the time. Whats the issue?

[Adahn (´ ᴥ `)]

引用自 Necroholic：

I see people wrecking with those characters all the time. Whats the issue?

People underestimating how much skill matters.

[Trippy Drug]

引用自 Necroholic：

I see people wrecking with those characters all the time. Whats the issue?

On a competitive level,vast majority of the characters mentioned in this thread are simply underpowered.

[Teddie]

Orochi

[Paradox]

引用自 Dio Brando：

引用自 DarkPhoton：

That's not the point though.. you can always find TERRIFYING players using the worst hero to destroy you, even if you're pretty good. Doesn't mean the hero is good. Performance of each hero is of course relative..

If that terrifying valk player had the same exact skill with gladiator he would be even MORE terrifying. That is the point. If someone was AS TERRIFYING as her in terms of skill, she will lose against them more often than not if they use a higher tier hero.

So unfortunately even if you find good players that seem very good with valk, she is still utterly trash tier.

Fair point. However, just like old zerker that needed something, most 'bad characters' are just used by players who limit themselves to a single viable tactic, such as a shugoki that only light + headbutted or waited for super armor, or an orochi that only top light + zoned.

Most bad heroes don't even have a single viable attack, that's why they are bad.

Orochi top light wasn't viable against standard guard heroes, and was only in conjunction with the threat of zone that it was even somewhat effective vs reflex guard heroes, along with its higher damage.

What other viable move should players have used on Orochi? You said they limited themselves to those two moves, as if there was some other viable move...Which I would really only agree with in very specific scenarios.

Similarly, explain to me what viable moves Shinobi has, other than punishes. Take his lights for example, they are probably the best lights in the game, with 24 damage on a double hit, which the 2nd hit is confirmed. However, with no mixup game at all, they are also fairly easy to parry and punish. So, the risk generally outweighs the rewards (a heavy vs 2 lights) when used offensively (opposed to a punish).

Oh, and yes I am talking about duels.

[R3d_Rain+]

引用自 Mister-Skeever：

引用自 R3d_Rain：

Rep 39 and still going as warden boyo

40*

I'm rep 39 my guy

引用自 Paradox：

引用自 Dio Brando：

Fair point. However, just like old zerker that needed something, most 'bad characters' are just used by players who limit themselves to a single viable tactic, such as a shugoki that only light + headbutted or waited for super armor, or an orochi that only top light + zoned.

Most bad heroes don't even have a single viable attack, that's why they are bad.

Orochi top light wasn't viable against standard guard heroes, and was only in conjunction with the threat of zone that it was even somewhat effective vs reflex guard heroes, along with its higher damage.

What other viable move should players have used on Orochi? You said they limited themselves to those two moves, as if there was some other viable move...Which I would really only agree with in very specific scenarios.

Similarly, explain to me what viable moves Shinobi has, other than punishes. Take his lights for example, they are probably the best lights in the game, with 24 damage on a double hit, which the 2nd hit is confirmed. However, with no mixup game at all, they are also fairly easy to parry and punish. So, the risk generally outweighs the rewards (a heavy vs 2 lights) when used offensively (opposed to a punish).

Oh, and yes I am talking about duels.

People underestimate throwing out side heavies as Orochi. Orochi can get some mileage off of feints. The same can be said for shin. Valk has utterly terrible feints though, with warden somewhere between them.

引用自 Paradox：

Shin, Orochi, Valk, LB, probably warden and shugoki too.

I asked for THE worst character.

引用自 Dio Brando：

people keep saying valkyrie is bad... ohoho, you just haven't seen a good valk. it's terrifying.

Valkyrie is the only acceptable alternative to the worst hero in the game to warden. Orochi is understandable, but wrong. Valk has no combo potential, low damage, and a huge dodge recovery. Also dodge lights are punishable with gb, which is a major setback for valk. Add on top of this fairly low health.

So uh yeah. Valk sucks. Orochi is better only for higher damage and a better dodge.

Shug still has the dangerous superarmor, too, which can give a lot of trouble to low tier characters (and even conq still). Especially if you get good enough to react to gb with a light attack. This isn't to say shug is great.

But warden literally has no winning matchups, and gets beat hard by assassins and shug.

[Paradox]

引用自 R3d_Rain：

引用自 Mister-Skeever：

40*

I'm rep 39 my guy

引用自 Paradox：

Most bad heroes don't even have a single viable attack, that's why they are bad.

Orochi top light wasn't viable against standard guard heroes, and was only in conjunction with the threat of zone that it was even somewhat effective vs reflex guard heroes, along with its higher damage.

What other viable move should players have used on Orochi? You said they limited themselves to those two moves, as if there was some other viable move...Which I would really only agree with in very specific scenarios.

Similarly, explain to me what viable moves Shinobi has, other than punishes. Take his lights for example, they are probably the best lights in the game, with 24 damage on a double hit, which the 2nd hit is confirmed. However, with no mixup game at all, they are also fairly easy to parry and punish. So, the risk generally outweighs the rewards (a heavy vs 2 lights) when used offensively (opposed to a punish).

Oh, and yes I am talking about duels.

People underestimate throwing out side heavies as Orochi. Orochi can get some mileage off of feints. The same can be said for shin. Valk has utterly terrible feints though, with warden somewhere between them.

引用自 Paradox：

Shin, Orochi, Valk, LB, probably warden and shugoki too.

I asked for THE worst character.

引用自 Dio Brando：

people keep saying valkyrie is bad... ohoho, you just haven't seen a good valk. it's terrifying.

Valkyrie is the only acceptable alternative to the worst hero in the game to warden. Orochi is understandable, but wrong. Valk has no combo potential, low damage, and a huge dodge recovery. Also dodge lights are punishable with gb, which is a major setback for valk. Add on top of this fairly low health.

So uh yeah. Valk sucks. Orochi is better only for higher damage and a better dodge.

Shug still has the dangerous superarmor, too, which can give a lot of trouble to low tier characters (and even conq still). Especially if you get good enough to react to gb with a light attack. This isn't to say shug is great.

But warden literally has no winning matchups, and gets beat hard by assassins and shug.

Maybe orochi could, back when he had damage and vs reflex guard, but now...Same with Shin, his feints are terrible.

It's fairly hard to discern the worst, when they are all very bad. If i really had to pick the worst it would probably be LB. For the simple fact that you will rarely punish a good player and he has zero offense. However, LB is probably one of the stronger ones, of the ones i listed, against not amazing players.