Raider Counter Guide

[Axel]

Hey all I found this guide on Reddit "HISS!" which I found pretty useful in dealing with Raiders better and thought some of you on here may find it useful. All credit goes to Yokai_e1even.


I know I already posted a raider counter tread a while back, but I want to keep the information in circulation so people can have access to it :]

Also it kinda disappeared 🤔 Damn raiders trying to silence justice .......Jk

I’ll include some new edits as well as most things from the original:

The majority of these notes I’ve collected by doing drills with level 3s and having a bunch of experience in 4v4s and 1v1s

These are possible not guaranteed counters. It usually depends on the raider’s play style.

First let’s run down on the most dangerous aspects of raider’s kit, from there we can go about possible trade options, counters, mind games, etc.

The infamous stunning tap: The speed is 400ms Dodge is guaranteed is used correctly 2 second Stun Stamina Drain sets your Stam to 20 Can track Dodges

[The majority of most raiders utilize this to the utmost extreme. It also leads to their insane mixup options.]

Rushing/Dodge Guard Break: It serves as a counter to a majority of non-hyper-armor heavy attacks. (It even works against some lights) The more experienced raiders tend to mix between this and the ST from time to time.

Raiders fury (both variations): The raiders fury from the stunning tap is extremely aggravating. Especially for less experienced players. The base variant does 28. From a chain (even from stunning tap), it shoots up to 50dmg. However this doesn’t necessarily spell doom and gloom, I’ll go over some possible tricks to deal with it.

Soft feint: All of his heavies soft feint into either a guardbreak or stunning tap. This gives him access to a 33/33/33 mixup option. Let the hyper armor chain fly, use the stunning tap, or go for the guardbreak.

These are the four most dangerous parts of Raider’s kit.

Notice: characters with dodge attacks and hyperarmor bashes/heavies are bound to find this useful.

Possible Trades, Counters, etc.

ST: First off, the very first thing any hero should do is focus on disabling the stunning tap completely. There are three ways one can accomplish this. Trade with it, Dodge Attacks, and Parrying.

Trade ——————————————————————- Those with hyper armor can tank the damage and attack through the stun, trading damage values in the process. However, the stamina drain is still immense.

Example: Cent can use eagles fury to trade with the stun, and get a punch in for a guaranteed light.

Now some of you may have already realized the negative impacts of trading with the Stunning tap. The raider gets his stun debuff, and you lose most of your stamina. You now run the risk of going OOS.

However, the stunning tap lacks hyper armor. So while you will go blind and may lose stamina you can make a pretty significant trade off.

For example: If a hitokiri manages to trade a full unblockable with a stunning tap, the raider gets only 18 damage, while the hito can get above 30. The hit stun from the trade will also force the raider to start the chain from the very beginning meaning no incoming HA heavy. By this point the stun may have worn off

Also the purpose of the trade can serve in some mind games. If a raider trades with a 40 damage heavy, they will lose 1/3 to 1/2 of their health. I feel that may discourage them from attempting to trade with it, thus limiting the Tap’s use in general.

Dodges/Deflects ——————————————————————— BE WARNED, DODGE ATTACKS AND DEFLECTS DO NOT AFFECT A FOLLOW UP HEAVY THAT HAS HYPER ARMOR. IT WILL TAG A ZONE OR ANOTHER LIGHT.

For assassins they don’t have to deal with the negative impacts of the trade, but they require accuracy. It’s either a dodge attack or it’s a deflect.

Dodge attacks negate the soft feint into guardbreak option, and can tag the raider mid ST animation WITH good timing. Unfortunately it’s usually on read and doesn’t affect follow up HA heavies.

However if the raider is extremely zone or light attack oriented this may prove to be a viable solution.

So if this is your preferred method I suggest using shaman’s or Kensei’s dodge attacks. Maybe zerk or Orochi if you’re godly at reads. ONLY IF THERE IS NO HA COMING AFTERWARDS

Deflects: Certain deflects have the capability of not only wrecking the stunning tap but also the hyper armor heavies that come afterwards. Shinobi deflects can bypass any HA heavy. I’ve seen kingmisty pull it off with gladiator as well. I’m not sure about Orochis deflect.

The others may or may not work depending on the raiders choices.

Parry ———————————————————————

If you feel confident in your reactions, feel free to parry incoming flash bangs. This usually dazes most raider players as they been getting wins through spamming it. So they never expect it to be parried. Use this temporary confusion in the raider to parry punish and pressure them.

Bonus: For flash bang happy raiders, use heavy hard feint into light attack to catch them mid animation.

Warning; NEVER DODGE EARLY YOU WILL BE STUNNED

Dodge GB:

This one is a bit more unorthodox. Hard heavy feint into light can work. Hyper armor heavies disable this GB entirely. Avoid careless heavies. Dodge attacks actually work.

Hyper armor Heavies:

Everyone HATES this. (Except for raiders) It’s seems almost impossible to either trade or predict a raider with his feintable super heavies. What most don’t realize however, is that the very FIRST heavy in the chain doesn’t have hyper armor. This means a hyper armor trade is perfectly safe on the FIRST heavy. You can also light him out of the chain before he even starts it. - Nuxia can do this, so can valk top light-

If you have have hyper armor DO NOT attempt a trade MID chain. He will win.

In short. Take advantage of his vulnerable first heavy. It forces him to start the chain over.

BE WARNED. He can alternate from heavy to light mid chain.

Countering the Raider Mixup:

The raider mixup is deadly. Arguably the most in the current state of balance. It requires patience and near godlike reactions to punish it effectively.

First let’s discuss the proper stance. Your guard should always be top.

This forces the raider to utilize his soft feints and GBs instead of going for the tap instantly.
It also forces them to throw side lights which can be blocked (or parried).
Keep your patience.

The soft feints aren’t entirely unreactable. Keep your guard at the top, and block his side lights.

Don’t flinch instantly. Keep your guard top. If he feints into a Stun it’s an easy parry. If it’s a guard break it’s an easy Counter GB If he lets it fly you’ll notice it. It’s a drastic speed difference from his lights. Block for safety or Parry for punish

Raiders tend to utilize their zone (Raider’s Fury) in their mix up to discourage blocks and get free stuns. The technique to deal with it is the same. Guard on top to force soft feints. If it’s a GB, counter GB. If it’s a stun, block it to be safe or punish it with a parry. If he lets the zone fly, try your best to parry it. Or dodge. ____________________________________________Now In the Very Real Possibility that a raider catches you with a flash bang. Prepare yourself.

The Raider’s mixup expands upon a stun.

It becomes a 20/20/20/20/20 that can branch out into independent mixups.

After landing a stun he has five options. - Another stun. - A Hyperarmor Heavy - A unblockable zone - A GB - Or a Light.

Stun leads to the same five options

A HA heavy leads to another Stun, GB, or Heavy

A zone leads to another Stun, GB , or The zone itself

A GB leads to a guaranteed zone which can be feinted into its mixup option

And a light is almost always followed by a stun.

HOW TO SHUT IT DOWN: Keep your guard on top. This shuts down spammers

If it’s a heavy prepare for the soft feint options: stun or Gb. - If he throws the heavy, block or parry to free yourself from the pressure. Always return your guard to top

If it’s the unblockable zone prepare for his two soft feint options. If he lets it fly. Get that Parry.

If it’s a GB, counter GB or prepare to eat a zone. If this raider is a ♥♥♥♥, prepare for another soft feint stun.

If he throws a light try to block or read it. If you can’t, eat the 18 damage and brace yourself for another stun to counter it preemptively.

Proper Out Of Stamina Play:

Luckily, the devs weren’t completely brain dead. Raider still has apparent limits on his stamina.

If he throws zone and it costs him his stamina, parry and OOS punish

If you can’t parry but you find him out of Stamina anyways, Keep close and apply pressure.

Never let heavies fly (He will dodge or parry)

He likes to dodge when OOS because of his fast dodges. Throw in the occasional GB to get another OOS punish.

CONCLUSION: For the most part this guide is for one vs one situations. Some legendary players may be able to do this casually but for someone like me it takes a lot of effort to memorize and shut down his options. I know the majority of people in the sub are far more experienced than me. So some criticism would be helpful so I can fix any mistakes. Raider in 4v4s is a force of nature. The only viable solution in such a scenario is ganking him. Besides that. Thanks for your time.

Recommended Characters: For Trading and big damage: Hitokiri

For Dodges and Deflects: Orochi and Zerker. Gladiators deflect can help turn the tide if you main him

Edited***Shutting down his offense: All block characters. Many have (once again) suggested that most all block characters are inherently weak against raider. The only two prevailing characters to not have been given arguments against are conquer and Aramusha. Feel free to try these two out and see if they work for you.

Also C3RKUIT pointed out Conqs ability to dodge after FBS due to his quick recovery. So even if the raider starts sending zones or heavies Conquer should be able to move out the way in time.

Stopping his chains: A hero with quick lights can do the trick on a heavy happy raider. Nuxia tends to work. Don’t let him go on the attack.

[shower speedrunner]

+1
Very nice.
Tl dr: block top, react side. Counter gb. And a few more detailed tips.

[BigJ]

You forgot to add kensei as a direct counter, he can hold his guard to the heavy and dodge forward to superior dodge the light for a free gb, almost negates the mix up if your reactions are decent enough.

[Axel]

۞Big J۞ eredeti hozzászólása:

You forgot to add kensei as a direct counter, he can hold his guard to the heavy and dodge forward to superior dodge the light for a free gb, almost negates the mix up if your reactions are decent enough.

Nice I'll give that a try, personally I like to use Warden and get that crushing counter strike. That stops ST spammers usually.

[Gaser]

Good Job, Axel.

Great guide. ^^

[Axel]

Gaser eredeti hozzászólása:

Good Job, Axel.

Great guide. ^^

Yeah it's pretty handy. As I said it was made by Yokai_e1even but I wasn't allowed to post Reddit links here so copied it over.

Did ask the author beforehand too.

[Amon]

This guide basically makes Raider nerf reduntant lol its so good. Just kidding nerf that axe boiiii. Jokes aside its a really good guide

[Gaser]

Axel eredeti hozzászólása:

Gaser eredeti hozzászólása:

Good Job, Axel.

Great guide. ^^

Yeah it's pretty handy. As I said it was made by Yokai_e1even but I wasn't allowed to post Reddit links here so copied it over.

Did ask the author beforehand too.

Yes but i thank you for posting it here anyway. :3

[Axel]

Gaser eredeti hozzászólása:

Axel eredeti hozzászólása:

Yeah it's pretty handy. As I said it was made by Yokai_e1even but I wasn't allowed to post Reddit links here so copied it over.

Did ask the author beforehand too.

Yes but i thank you for posting it here anyway. :3

Aww shucks 🥰

[Gaser]

Axel eredeti hozzászólása:

Gaser eredeti hozzászólása:

Yes but i thank you for posting it here anyway. :3

Aww shucks 🥰

OwO

Is this the part where we hug each other?

[Stret]

Some of those things are just unecessary and some wrong, such as implying stunning tap is unreactable.

You cant really make a guide for those things

Thanks for the effort tho

[Da]

geez.
whole wall of text just to know how to counter raider.

[BigJ]

pogoda +19 eredeti hozzászólása:

geez.
whole wall of text just to know how to counter raider.

You really haven't seen many non troll guides have you?

[Axel]

Stret1311 eredeti hozzászólása:

Some of those things are just unecessary and some wrong, such as implying stunning tap is unreactable.

You cant really make a guide for those things

Thanks for the effort tho

Feel free to add whichever you feel necessary or may help.

I don't believe it's consistently reactable by anyone, but that's my personal opinion.

[Stret]

Axel eredeti hozzászólása:

Stret1311 eredeti hozzászólása:

Some of those things are just unecessary and some wrong, such as implying stunning tap is unreactable.

You cant really make a guide for those things

Thanks for the effort tho

Feel free to add whichever you feel necessary or may help.

I don't believe it's consistently reactable by anyone, but that's my personal opinion.

it is

With indicator alone its basically an undelayed 400ms light attack plus its a single stimulis reaction

[Axel]

Stret1311 eredeti hozzászólása:

Axel eredeti hozzászólása:

Feel free to add whichever you feel necessary or may help.

I don't believe it's consistently reactable by anyone, but that's my personal opinion.

it is

With indicator alone its basically an undelayed 400ms light attack plus its a single stimulis reaction

I'll believe it when I can see someone consistently react to it myself.