For Honor

For Honor

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Paradox (已封禁) 2017 年 12 月 23 日 下午 8:36
I'm genuinely curious about some opinions on shinobi...
Some people don't think Shinobi is crap tier. Is this purely based on 4v4 modes? If not, please comment below with a single "good" matchup for a Shinobi. And then explain why it's a "good" matchup and not just a matchup that is "not as bad as it could be"?
最后由 Paradox 编辑于; 2017 年 12 月 23 日 下午 8:39
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正在显示第 61 - 70 条,共 70 条留言
Nitromethane 2017 年 12 月 27 日 上午 12:06 
Honestly, 1k hours on Warden, Shinobi vs Warden is probably 50/50 at best. Shinobi does not have the upper hand in that fight. I certainly do not fear Shinobis on my Warden, he's not a bad matchup at all. You can react to anything he does, he can't even damage you. You can either trade with him or turtle him out. Sure Shinobi anihilated Warden during release, but now its a whole other story.

Does Shinobi have any good matchups? Conq would probably be the only one I can think off to be honest.

I dont think Shinobi is utter trash, probably C tier.
最后由 Nitromethane 编辑于; 2017 年 12 月 27 日 上午 12:23
Paradox (已封禁) 2017 年 12 月 27 日 上午 1:04 
引用自 Paradox
Then maybe you should re-read the mEssages, because that's not what I did. Quite the contrary, I tried to correct people who were trying to use good play vs bad play to support their arguments.

Anywho, do you have anything at all to support your opinion that Warden is a good matchup for Shinobi?
Now I think only about your massage. Okay. As I wrote above, when I play with Warden against turtling/range Shinobi I have zero chances to win. Warden has weak forward dodge, and the only way he can cut the distance is zone, but we all know what happens after. Yep I can turtle too for sure. But the problem is that he can outcheap me with his zone with no probs. He can outcheap me with his range heavies and I can't do any sh*t with it (in the very best senario only zone, but it depends on which range was between you and Shin when you parried his range heavy. So it is or I hit him with zone, or I will miss because range was too big and he will get a free GB). His kicks is a little problem too (I mean kick on double dodge and kick after ranged heavy). Yeah sometimes you can dodge them, but you can't punish him for it. Because you make dodge, and only thing you can do is SB (or nothing) and if Shinobi uses lights right after kicks, he will hit you with it and interrupt SB. I like to play against Shinobi even with Kens or Hl, because of their reach, but Warden against Shin is unpleasant experience.
huh? Can you break your paragraphs up into smaller ones?

Shinobi's ranged attacks are a joke in duels. His kick is easy to dodge on reaction, that whole poofing dodging is a nice telegraph too (somewhat nullfified with smokeless dodge, but at the cost of range). Shinobi's zone is terrible, it's a free parry. Not sure what else you said, tbh...

引用自 Shakta
Honestly, 1k hours on Warden, Shinobi vs Warden is probably 50/50 at best. Shinobi does not have the upper hand in that fight. I certainly do not fear Shinobis on my Warden, he's not a bad matchup at all. You can react to anything he does, he can't even damage you. You can either trade with him or turtle him out. Sure Shinobi anihilated Warden during release, but now its a whole other story.

Does Shinobi have any good matchups? Conq would probably be the only one I can think off to be honest.

I dont think Shinobi is utter trash, probably C tier.

Well, I don't think shinobi is the worst hero in the game, but I do think he is a pretty bad one and goes into the same trash tier as the worst heroes in the game.

Conq is another stalemate for Shin. Shin cannot use the kick to punish a conq's SB, because conq's recovery is fast enough to allow him to use another SB to dodge and punish the shin's kick.

Supposedly if you are fast enough Shin can get a free GB from dodging Conq's SB (single dodge to GB), but that timing is super tight and I rarely pull it off. You could interrupt Conq's SB with lights, but you would have to do it on prediction, even with Shin's 500ms lights.

So, it's not a "good" matchup for Shin, but it definitely "could be a lot worse". And that's kind of my whole point with this thread, Shin doesn't have any "good" matchups, he has stalemates or ones where he isn't just molested, but no good ones.
最后由 Paradox 编辑于; 2017 年 12 月 27 日 上午 1:06
HotBurritoInColdRoom 2017 年 12 月 27 日 上午 1:21 
引用自 Paradox
~~~
huh? Can you break your paragraphs up into smaller ones?

Shinobi's ranged attacks are a joke in duels. His kick is easy to dodge on reaction, that whole poofing dodging is a nice telegraph too (somewhat nullfified with smokeless dodge, but at the cost of range). Shinobi's zone is terrible, it's a free parry. Not sure what else you said, tbh...
Hard to read the whole text at once, huh?
You probably missed half of my mAssage.

Against Warden his range is free cheap, yep they deal a little dmg at all, but still, free dmg, and if Shin is turtle enough, it is not a prob to hold all 4 mins with no action untill round will finish.

Same with his zone.

Yes it is parryable, but what next? Cant reach it with GB cant reach it with light.

Warden has nothing against Shinobi, only mindf*cks and luck can help him to win.
Paradox (已封禁) 2017 年 12 月 27 日 上午 1:26 
引用自 Paradox
huh? Can you break your paragraphs up into smaller ones?

Shinobi's ranged attacks are a joke in duels. His kick is easy to dodge on reaction, that whole poofing dodging is a nice telegraph too (somewhat nullfified with smokeless dodge, but at the cost of range). Shinobi's zone is terrible, it's a free parry. Not sure what else you said, tbh...
Hard to read the whole text at once, huh?
You probably missed half of my mAssage.

Against Warden his range is free cheap, yep they deal a little dmg at all, but still, free dmg, and if Shin is turtle enough, it is not a prob to hold all 4 mins with no action untill round will finish.

Same with his zone.

Yes it is parryable, but what next? Cant reach it with GB cant reach it with light.

Warden has nothing against Shinobi, only mindf*cks and luck can help him to win.
Ya, when your english is that bad...I mean, I would prefer a massage over trying to read your messages...

Shinobi's ranged can be dodged, boom no chip. It can also be parried, boom no chip and now the shinobi is probably OOS if not really close.

His zone is the easiest zone in the game to parry, I don't really see how you think it's an asset...
HotBurritoInColdRoom 2017 年 12 月 27 日 上午 1:39 
引用自 Paradox
Hard to read the whole text at once, huh?
You probably missed half of my mAssage.

Against Warden his range is free cheap, yep they deal a little dmg at all, but still, free dmg, and if Shin is turtle enough, it is not a prob to hold all 4 mins with no action untill round will finish.

Same with his zone.

Yes it is parryable, but what next? Cant reach it with GB cant reach it with light.

Warden has nothing against Shinobi, only mindf*cks and luck can help him to win.
Ya, when your english is that bad...I mean, I would prefer a massage over trying to read your messages...

Shinobi's ranged can be dodged, boom no chip. It can also be parried, boom no chip and now the shinobi is probably OOS if not really close.

His zone is the easiest zone in the game to parry, I don't really see how you think it's an asset...

Oh, that bad :( Sorry I am talking with you on basic level, and your genius mind refuse to understand simple words and sentences :(
But
if
it
is
more
easier
for
you
to
read
like
this
you
welcome.
Boom you dodged it once, nothing happens, boob you parry it another time - nothing happened, boom - he randomly hits you with heavy in block, now he has advantage.
Not the easiest, it is just not so hard to parry, like HL's, Cent's and others. And only his 3rd hit is ez parryable, you get first two hits in block. (Hello Cheap dmg). And as I said after parry you can't GB him, you just letting him go.
Rekan (已封禁) 2017 年 12 月 27 日 上午 7:04 
A Shinobi can fight a Warden in a way that the Warden can't punish anything.
BigJ 2017 年 12 月 27 日 上午 8:44 
引用自 Rekan 부모님
A Shinobi can fight a Warden in a way that the Warden can't punish anything.
A shinobi can fight anyone with no pounce attack in a way they can't punish a thing .
Paradox (已封禁) 2017 年 12 月 27 日 下午 2:39 
引用自 Rekan 부모님
A Shinobi can fight a Warden in a way that the Warden can't punish anything.
How's that, it's not listed in his movelist "Unpunishable ways to fight Heroes"? Does he stare at them until their eyes melt? I don't know how to pull that off. Does he hypnotize them into suicide with his mesmerizing dance/dodges? Again, Idk how to pull that off. Does he just wait until time runs out? That's kind of a pita way of playing, but I guess I know how to do that...
HotBurritoInColdRoom 2017 年 12 月 27 日 下午 10:15 
引用自 Paradox
引用自 Rekan 부모님
A Shinobi can fight a Warden in a way that the Warden can't punish anything.
How's that, it's not listed in his movelist "Unpunishable ways to fight Heroes"? Does he stare at them until their eyes melt? I don't know how to pull that off. Does he hypnotize them into suicide with his mesmerizing dance/dodges? Again, Idk how to pull that off. Does he just wait until time runs out? That's kind of a pita way of playing, but I guess I know how to do that...
Actually, he really hypnotize Wardens, and then strike with lights from distance of 3 meters.
Paradox (已封禁) 2017 年 12 月 28 日 下午 9:13 
引用自 Paradox
How's that, it's not listed in his movelist "Unpunishable ways to fight Heroes"? Does he stare at them until their eyes melt? I don't know how to pull that off. Does he hypnotize them into suicide with his mesmerizing dance/dodges? Again, Idk how to pull that off. Does he just wait until time runs out? That's kind of a pita way of playing, but I guess I know how to do that...
Actually, he really hypnotize Wardens, and then strike with lights from distance of 3 meters.
MmmHmmm, okay.

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发帖日期: 2017 年 12 月 23 日 下午 8:36
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