Centurion gank squads rant (video)

[Gromit]

So i was playing dominion, a rare occurance for me becuase i pretty much main assasins, so 90% of the time you get 2v1'd by people, which im fine with thats part of the experience of 4v4. But this time i was playing it becuase i just started to get into shugoki, so i thought dominon could be pretty fun, only to find myself matched against 3 centurions and an orochi.

Now from the start, i really cant fathom why 3 of the same character is allowed, i would think maximum 2. I didnt start the recording until half way through the match where i thought it might be useful to give evidence of these roving centurion gank squads. (im very aware gank squads have been a thing since release, but it hasnt been so hard to defend against until centurion was added) before we had conq mainly cos they could just shield bash spam anyone, but given the acctual swing of the attack wasnt unblockable, you could ussualy revenge and then go find teamates, but that isnt the case with centurion as you will see, admittedly i was playing shugoki, an obviously slow character so i cant effectivly dodge the lunges, but towards the end i was 1v1 with a cent, and you can see its very manageable as a shugoki to win against him, because i can focus on dodging/parrying all the stuff he does.

However the difficulty of winning against a centurion goes up exponentially with the ammount of them that are on you, 1 kick is fine, you can just "roll away bro" but then you roll into a 2nd one, where you get stabbed twice, you doge the punch, only to get punched by the 2nd guy , where you get 2 heavies, and no stamina, you cant parry because there are no external parry indicators, and given centurions distance dependant parry timing, its almost impossible to predict even as someone who as orochi spends 90% of his time staring at the parry animation.

Then if for some bizzare reason you are managing to block their lunge attacks and dodge the kicks ect, they will probably start to throw guardbreaks into the mix, now a gb from the person you are locked onto is nothing, but given that for external guardbreaks, you dont get the guard break indicator until you are acctualy hit with the gb (at which point its too late) which means while trying to parry/dodge/block 1 cent, you are getting gb by the 2nd, and in a cituation where you are getting gangbanged, its impossible to keep track of all this, revenge is absolutley useless, against all other chars in a 1v# cituation its only use is the initial bounce off, at which you can run away and go and find teamates, but with cent (and to a lesser extent conq) you cant do that, because the unblockable lunge heavies and kicks/punches go straight thru gb, so all you get is a bit more health, which gets melted by the attack and stun spam, and you cant attack because you are stunlocked, this really does need changing, obviously we cant really have centurions skillset changed entirely, but there needs to be significant buffs to revenge, and how that interacts with unblockable attacks, or changes to how many of the same char you can have.

Even if a teamate tries to help you, the centurions then get revenge, meaning the hp melting stunlock is even more effective, its impossible to break it, at the end of the day getting ganked by 4 centurions isnt very fun, and that is ultimately what the game is about, could you imagine this in a competitive settings? it would be 4 cent VS 4 cent.

this isnt the first time this has been said but i thought id have a go at voicing my opinion, and posting a video of this acctually happening for referance.

My video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cutQQxCAT6k

[Brother Solarius]

I like being dash-kick all day by 4 cents until my nuts are in my throat.

[Starwight/ttv]

Getting ganked by anyone isn't fun, not just cent. Now, I do believe cent is OP (even in 1v1, if you say he isn't, you haven't fought a good cent player), but I don't think complaining of his ganks is reasonable because every character is nasty 3v1ing you. Many characters can stunlock you too. Plus, it's 3 v 1. You really aren't SUPPOSED to be able to win that.

[Rain4524]

Messaggio originale di alonesilverwolf:

Getting ganked by anyone isn't fun, not just cent. Now, I do believe cent is OP (even in 1v1, if you say he isn't, you haven't fought a good cent player), but I don't think complaining of his ganks is reasonable because every character is nasty 3v1ing you. Many characters can stunlock you too. Plus, it's 3 v 1. You really aren't SUPPOSED to be able to win that.

a good cent is just a turtle

[The Toast of Kyiv]

Welcome to ♥♥♥♥ game design decisions.

For Honor is full of that. Like others say, you're not meant to win against multiple opponents. (for some reason, Ubi's devs seem to ADORE stun-locks. It's almost impossible to win against any opponent with a brain that way. It's actually cancerous that people think they're good if they gank you or abuse their stun-lock abilities.)

[Gromit]

Messaggio originale di alonesilverwolf:

Getting ganked by anyone isn't fun, not just cent. Now, I do believe cent is OP (even in 1v1, if you say he isn't, you haven't fought a good cent player), but I don't think complaining of his ganks is reasonable because every character is nasty 3v1ing you. Many characters can stunlock you too. Plus, it's 3 v 1. You really aren't SUPPOSED to be able to win that.

But i should at least have a chance.

[Csx39]

At the beginning of the video the 2nd cent wasnt attacking you and you could of ya know
DODGED

[Chip]

Messaggio originale di IVIalicious:

Welcome to ♥♥♥♥ game design decisions.

For Honor is full of that. Like others say, you're not meant to win against multiple opponents. (for some reason, Ubi's devs seem to ADORE stun-locks. It's almost impossible to win against any opponent with a brain that way. It's actually cancerous that people think they're good if they gank you or abuse their stun-lock abilities.)

Says the self-proclaimed expert in game design. Is there a better For Honor clone right now that you could point us to? Please, enlighten us as to what "good game design decisions" look like. And to make things more interesting, I'll bet $100 that players whine and moan about "game balance lol" in its respective forums, as well.

Also, no one thinks you're good if you gank and stun-lock. You're in the "frustrated gamer" development phase:
get wrekt -> be butthurt -> git gud OR uninstall

[Gromit]

Messaggio originale di csx39 YT:

At the beginning of the video the 2nd cent wasnt attacking you and you could of ya know
DODGED

Well my eagle eyed friend if you veeeery closesly you'll see that the 2nd cent missed a gb and was coming towards me, so i couldnt dodge sideways or he'd hit me, you will then see the magnet lunges hit me because im dodging backwards to get away.

[Chip]

i saw your vid
In the beginning, you didn't get ganked. you willfully walked into a place with 3 enemies, and swung at two of them. Also, I think when people say "dodge the cent kick", I think they mean do a full retreat. You know, pressing evade twice really fast.

[The Toast of Kyiv]

Messaggio originale di jkpark93:

Messaggio originale di IVIalicious:

Welcome to ♥♥♥♥ game design decisions.

For Honor is full of that. Like others say, you're not meant to win against multiple opponents. (for some reason, Ubi's devs seem to ADORE stun-locks. It's almost impossible to win against any opponent with a brain that way. It's actually cancerous that people think they're good if they gank you or abuse their stun-lock abilities.)

Says the self-proclaimed expert in game design. Is there a better For Honor clone right now that you could point us to? Please, enlighten us as to what "good game design decisions" look like. And to make things more interesting, I'll bet $100 that players whine and moan about "game balance lol" in its respective forums, as well.

Also, no one thinks you're good if you gank and stun-lock. You're in the "frustrated gamer" development phase:
get wrekt -> be butthurt -> git gud OR uninstall

Oh here we go ... and just what is the point you're trying to make?.

I don't claim to be a "self-proclaimed expert in game design". I'm nowhere near being a game developer myself, but i do have qualifications in the area from my studies at college. I know ♥♥♥♥ game mechanics and poor design when i see them. Don't you try and patronize me about those, they're poorly designed. Multi-opponent combat was clearly not anticipated to be at the scale it is now. Gamers abuse certain stun-lock abilities on heroes and people just constantly attack you now with guard-breaks and unblockable attacks, giving you no time for rest or the ability to react to them. You're saying this isn't poor game design?.

For Honor clone?. Hmm, 3rd person fighting games... let's see, Chivalry Medieval Warfare? or the upcoming "Mordhau" game?. Fits the genre of "fighting games" but if Mordhau is 3rd person has not been verified yet.

I know that making "Revenge" (stupid mechanic not using skill at all) a last-ditch attempt at fighting multiple opponents (who will kick your ass regardless of your skill level) is also a poor game mechanic. But no, no ... let's keep running away like little girls when you see more than one opponent coming for you or ganking one lone opponent because he's an easy kill. Working as intended, right?. It's either that or knocking someone's ass off of a cliff. No skill involved, genius.

"Game balance" ohhh, you don't even want me to go there sweetheart.

And lasty: NO D E D I C A T E D S E R V E R S. On a FIGHTING GAME!?!?. Where literally every ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ second counts?. Yeah, keep defending them for that sonny jim.

So yes, the devs have made poor game design choices and continue to make poor game design choices, Centurion and Shinobi saw to that last season. But c'mon, let's see your snarky reply to how i'm "butthurt".

Side note: Mmm, think i prefer using my own skill to fight people that try to gank me and stand my ground rather than run away like a little ♥♥♥♥♥ all game when they chase after me like crack addicts after a drug dealer.

[Chip]

Messaggio originale di IVIalicious:

Oh here we go ... and just what is the point you're trying to make?.

I don't claim to be a "self-proclaimed expert in game design". I'm nowhere near being a game developer myself, but i do have qualifications in the area from my studies at college. I know ♥♥♥♥ game mechanics and poor design when i see them. Don't you try and patronize me about those, they're poorly designed. Multi-opponent combat was clearly not anticipated to be at the scale it is now. Gamers abuse certain stun-lock abilities on heroes and people just constantly attack you now with guard-breaks and unblockable attacks, giving you no time for rest or the ability to react to them. You're saying this isn't poor game design?.

For Honor clone?. Hmm, 3rd person fighting games... let's see, Chivalry Medieval Warfare? or the upcoming "Mordhau" game?. Fits the genre of "fighting games" but if Mordhau is 3rd person has not been verified yet.

I know that making "Revenge" (stupid mechanic not using skill at all) a last-ditch attempt at fighting multiple opponents (who will kick your ass regardless of your skill level) is also a poor game mechanic. But no, no ... let's keep running away like little girls when you see more than one opponent coming for you or ganking one lone opponent because he's an easy kill. Working as intended, right?. It's either that or knocking someone's ass off of a cliff. No skill involved, genius.

"Game balance" ohhh, you don't even want me to go there sweetheart.

And lasty: NO D E D I C A T E D S E R V E R S. On a FIGHTING GAME!?!?. Where literally every ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ second counts?. Yeah, keep defending them for that sonny jim.

So yes, the devs have made poor game design choices and continue to make poor game design choices, Centurion and Shinobi saw to that last season. But c'mon, let's see your snarky reply to how i'm "butthurt".

Chivalry? Yeah, they moan about game balance there, too. Wow, I think I saw the exact phrase "turtle meta" used in Chivalry, as well. What a coincidence. 4/10, not impressed but good effort.

Also, where are your propositions for "good game design"? All I'm seeing is you giving us a summary of how your average dominion games go. What, you can't decide when to jump into a fight or not? You can't see how many little stars above the players heads there are? You can't count? You suck at countering GBs, so you get clfifed all the time? I don't care about how bad you are. Give me some of your hot and spicy ideas for a better game. Revenge not enough for you? How should we fight multiple opponents then? Should the screen AUTOMATICALLY SPLIT?! DAMAGE REDUCTION FOR GANKERS! MAKE THE GAME EASIER!

Lastly, nice dedicated servers meme. You're a professional redditor. Congratulations. Hope you like your IP throttling and server lag! Ubisoft isn't a gigantic corporation as plebbit would have you believe. How many servers do you think they can afford? Probably two for the U.S., one for Europe, and one for Asia. A very standard setup for an America-based global online game. And almost every game that starts this way gets massive latency problems in the beginning. But you wouldn't know any of that, since apparently you learn about games in college, "sweetie". Stop your developer "abuse", "sweetheart".

[The Toast of Kyiv]

Messaggio originale di jkpark93:

Messaggio originale di IVIalicious:

Oh here we go ... and just what is the point you're trying to make?.

I don't claim to be a "self-proclaimed expert in game design". I'm nowhere near being a game developer myself, but i do have qualifications in the area from my studies at college. I know ♥♥♥♥ game mechanics and poor design when i see them. Don't you try and patronize me about those, they're poorly designed. Multi-opponent combat was clearly not anticipated to be at the scale it is now. Gamers abuse certain stun-lock abilities on heroes and people just constantly attack you now with guard-breaks and unblockable attacks, giving you no time for rest or the ability to react to them. You're saying this isn't poor game design?.

For Honor clone?. Hmm, 3rd person fighting games... let's see, Chivalry Medieval Warfare? or the upcoming "Mordhau" game?. Fits the genre of "fighting games" but if Mordhau is 3rd person has not been verified yet.

I know that making "Revenge" (stupid mechanic not using skill at all) a last-ditch attempt at fighting multiple opponents (who will kick your ass regardless of your skill level) is also a poor game mechanic. But no, no ... let's keep running away like little girls when you see more than one opponent coming for you or ganking one lone opponent because he's an easy kill. Working as intended, right?. It's either that or knocking someone's ass off of a cliff. No skill involved, genius.

"Game balance" ohhh, you don't even want me to go there sweetheart.

And lasty: NO D E D I C A T E D S E R V E R S. On a FIGHTING GAME!?!?. Where literally every ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ second counts?. Yeah, keep defending them for that sonny jim.

So yes, the devs have made poor game design choices and continue to make poor game design choices, Centurion and Shinobi saw to that last season. But c'mon, let's see your snarky reply to how i'm "butthurt".

Chivalry? Yeah, they moan about game balance there, too. Wow, I think I saw the exact phrase "turtle meta" used in Chivalry, as well. What a coincidence. 4/10, not impressed but good effort.

Also, where are your propositions for "good game design"? All I'm seeing is you giving us a summary of how your average dominion games go. What, you can't decide when to jump into a fight or not? You can't see how many little stars above the players heads there are? You can't count? You suck at countering GBs, so you get clfifed all the time? I don't care about how bad you are. Give me some of your hot and spicy ideas for a better game. Revenge not enough for you? How should we fight multiple opponents then? Should the screen AUTOMATICALLY SPLIT?! DAMAGE REDUCTION FOR GANKERS! MAKE THE GAME EASIER!

Lastly, nice dedicated servers meme. You're a professional redditor. Congratulations. Hope you like your IP throttling and server lag! Ubisoft isn't a gigantic corporation as plebbit would have you believe. How many servers do you think they can afford? Probably two for the U.S., one for Europe, and one for Asia. A very standard setup for an America-based global online game. And almost every game that starts this way gets massive latency problems in the beginning. But you wouldn't know any of that, since apparently you learn about games in college, "sweetie". Stop your developer "abuse", "sweetheart".

Urgh, so i'm taking it you didn't like what you heard when i quite clearly underlined a few problems for the game and got pissy about it.

If you think that people aren't going to complain about balance in FIGHTING games then you clearly don't know what gaming communities are like. Of course they're going to complain, it's a FIGHTING game, once again... you go find me one where they don't and come back to make your case. And i don't mean scrolling through a few pages of the forums, i mean you search every community-based opinion on the game. Have fun doing that if you're even going to bother.

I'm not going to list down good game design propositions if you ain't gonna listen. Do it yourself if you're so smart.

You can assume my skill level all you want, doesn't make your case any more valid. Resorting to insults whn logic doesn't work?. You try countering every guard break 3 or 4 players throw at you in a gank then you moron. (inb4 you start your "git gud, i do that every game" ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥) But that's besides the point. Revenge is a useless mechanic, the point was to give me the tools to fight them off MYSELF, instead of giving me crutches by pressing the "R" button. Thought that was obvious.

Lastly, again: Are you seriously defending Ubisoft's decision to use Peer-to-peer connections in the game!?. Are you ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ blind man?. I get connection errors every couple of games or so, most of them that kicks me out of the lobby for no reason. You're telling me that one of the top gaming companies in the entire WORLD (ranked 13 for the top companies in the world by game revenue alone) can't afford to sustain a few servers?. Yeah, that's called greed you absolute cuck. They use P2P because it was always the cheaper option. It's not developer "abuse" to point out their absolute moronic game design decisions. Don't have to use Reddit to figure that out.

But by all means, keep assuming.

[Chip]

Messaggio originale di IVIalicious:

If you think that people aren't going to complain about balance in FIGHTING games then you clearly don't know what gaming communities are like. Of course they're going to complain, it's a FIGHTING game, once again... you go find me one where they don't and come back to make your case. And i don't mean scrolling through a few pages of the forums, i mean you search every community-based opinion on the game. Have fun doing that if you're even going to bother.

Yeah, everyone complains about something. Like you! That's the point I was making! Funny, isn't it? Doesn't matter if the complaints are stupid, it's just part of the "gaming community culture bro xD"

Messaggio originale di IVIalicious:

I'm not going to list down good game design propositions if you ain't gonna listen. Do it yourself if you're so smart.

Unfortunately, I did go through the arduous task of reading your paragraphs that say nothing. I cannot find these propositions. All I saw were complaints. All I saw were, "X happens and I don't like it. You can't do Y. Z isn't fun."

Legend:
X = ganking
Y = fight 3 people by yourself
Z = running away from bad fights

Messaggio originale di IVIalicious:

You can assume my skill level all you want, doesn't make your case any more valid. Resorting to insults whn logic doesn't work?. You try countering every guard break 3 or 4 players throw at you in a gank then you moron. (inb4 you start your "git gud, i do that every game" ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥) But that's besides the point. Revenge is a useless mechanic, the point was to give me the tools to fight them off MYSELF, instead of giving me crutches by pressing the "R" button. Thought that was obvious.

Is the problem here that you can't win 3v1s or 4v1s? Well, you're not supposed to. You know why you're not supposed to? It's because 3 people together can beat 1 person. It's called teamplay. I'm starting to have a suspicion that you always get matched in 4v1s in Dominion. Is the auto-bot feature not working for you? Send a ticket to Ubisoft, man. Also, does Revenge not allow you to fight them off "yourself"? By making you stronger, so you can deal with more enemies at once? Does Revenge make someone else fight them for you? Revenge isn't a tool? It's wrong to give a player a crutch when he's outnumbered?
Wierd. Are we even playing the same game?

Messaggio originale di IVIalicious:

Lastly, again: Are you seriously defending Ubisoft's decision to use Peer-to-peer connections in the game!?. Are you ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ blind man?. I get connection errors every couple of games or so, most of them that kicks me out of the lobby for no reason. You're telling me that one of the top gaming companies in the entire WORLD (ranked 13 for the top companies in the world by game revenue alone) can't afford to sustain a few servers?. Yeah, that's called greed you absolute cuck. They use P2P because it was always the cheaper option. It's not developer "abuse" to point out their absolute moronic game design decisions. Don't have to use Reddit to figure that out.

Yeah, I'm defending P2P because I don't get matched with players who use dial-up. I only get connection errors once every two hours or so. Funny how P2P works, huh? It's like, if you get matched with morons with terrible internet, you get more connection errors! Truly a mystery. But this is completely Ubisoft's fault. They're a GIANT company. (Ranked 13 in the world amongst the 15 that actually matter!) They should be fixing every players' network setups! How dare they use P2P because it ensures the highest quality connection at the expense of stability? It's obviously because the company is evil and greedy, like all companies. Screw capitalism, man. My liberal college professors are always right.

[Starwight/ttv]

Are you seriously defending Ubisoft's decision to use Peer-to-peer connections in the game!?. Are you ♥♥♥♥ing blind man?.

I'm going to jump in on this. There's so much wrong with your entire set of posts I can't even put up a counterpost for all of it. That said, P2P.

It is the standard for fighting games. So idk what you're on about, as far as saying it's not used. That is completely untrue, it's become the industry standard for a fighting game.

Servers will introduce latency, far more than P2P. For games that require the fine timing this game does, that is a no go. You will be getting shadow hits, bocks that didn't block, parries that should have parried but didn't.

No. Servers are a bad idea for this sort of game, P2P is fine. And if you really knew anything about programing and games in general, you would know this. So it makes me question what you claim as far as your "knowledge" on thr subject.

[The Toast of Kyiv]

Messaggio originale di alonesilverwolf:

Are you seriously defending Ubisoft's decision to use Peer-to-peer connections in the game!?. Are you ♥♥♥♥ing blind man?.

I'm going to jump in on this. There's so much wrong with your entire set of posts I can't even put up a counterpost for all of it. That said, P2P.

It is the standard for fighting games. So idk what you're on about, as far as saying it's not used. That is completely untrue, it's become the industry standard for a fighting game.

Servers will introduce latency, far more than P2P. For games that require the fine timing this game does, that is a no go. You will be getting shadow hits, bocks that didn't block, parries that should have parried but didn't.

No. Servers are a bad idea for this sort of game, P2P is fine. And if you really knew anything about programing and games in general, you would know this. So it makes me question what you claim as far as your "knowledge" on thr subject.

Are you suggesting that peer to peer is better?. Dedicated servers wouldn't have the re-occuring problem of kicking people out of lobbies every few games or so, (unless there was an internal problem with the server) now would it?. So long as Ubisoft maintains them.

Peer to peer connections only send so many packets of data through to the other users, maintaining the system and network based on each user's individual connectivity strength (keeping the lobbies and games up and running, if one user's connection fails, so does everyone else's. Hence why lobbies freeze up and need to re-synch the connection) wheras dedicated servers provide a constant stream of said data packets, upholding the network that the playerbase is connected to so long as said server is kept up and running.

P2P better than dedicated servers?. No, you're wrong i'm afraid. Don't know who told you that P2P was better but they were sorely mistaken, unless you assume that yourself for some reason... don't act like other games that have used P2P connections have suffered the same fate as For Honor's P2P system. Disconnects.

P2P is not "fine". There are still rampant connection losses that still remain even months after the game has launched. I'm saying P2P is a bad idea because of my "knowledge". You'd do best to not judge me on that regard. It's quite enough for this subject.

The evidence is right in front of your face dude.