Shugoki is annoying (Overpowered)

[dex]

Why do you have a whole combat system set up for this game, when that character completely disregards it?

This seems to happen with every popular game recently...
When its well established or known how the game works the developers always think "Oh what if we do the complete opposite of what we were doing before?"

I'm not complaining that the character is overpowered in any way shape or form, it just seems like that kind of abilities just doesnt fit in a game like this. <-- Nevermind he is OP.

[Gatsu]

My only complaint about shugoki is the unblockable unparryable gilitch abuse, I dont know if those are fixed. Thats all. Ahh and sometimes demon embrace tracks your dodge thats stupid but rarerly happens.

[Comrad YUmad]

Touch Fluffy Tail eredeti hozzászólása:

funny its he its in the tash can tier right now.

Lol nope, go to r/competitiveforhonor, even the top competitive for honor agree that Shugoki is only slightly below the current top 4 which is Warlord,PK,Conqueror, Warden.

[Saint Landwalker]

Gatsu eredeti hozzászólása:

My only complaint about shugoki is the unblockable unparryable gilitch abuse, I dont know if those are fixed. Thats all. Ahh and sometimes demon embrace tracks your dodge thats stupid but rarerly happens.

That got fixed as part of the most recent patch.

[abirvalgo]

Shugoki is the only viable char against all those crappy revenge builds

[Saint Landwalker]

Alright, here's a re-hash of my post-that-was-lost last night:

Insert Cringe Here eredeti hozzászólása:

I completely agree, the stun oriented heroes are near useless against him, and the only way to counter him seems to be warden or an assassin.

Hardly. Once his hyper-armor is down, Shugoki is as vulnerable to bashes as anyone else—and given his atrocious stamina, arguably moreso. Personally, I have the hardest time fighting Nobushi and Valkyrie, because their range and pokey attacks let them chip away at the Shugoki from a distance. Nobushi in particular, because her "Deals More Damage vs. Bleeding Targets" ability synergizes with the Shugoki's "Takes More Damage When Unbreakable Stance is Down" to allow her to dish out a heinous amount of damage very quickly.

Insert Cringe Here eredeti hozzászólása:

This is ridiculous, a hit should cancel the opponents attack right? Well not with Shugoki, he can swing all day unless you get a lucky stun.

Well, yeah, that's kind of the Shugoki's thing. The Warlord can do the same thing on all of his heavy attacks. It's early and this is just off the top of my head, but Warlord, Conqueror, Lawbringer, Berserker, Valkyrie, and Kensei all have uninterruptible attacks, which lets them do the same thing (during those attacks) that the Shugoki does when his Unbreakable Stance is active. When it's active. Once it's down, he's a pin cushion.

A wise opponent will remove the Shugoki's hyper armor whenever they have the chance (often with a GB attempt) so that they can stagger him instead. They won't just throw themselves into his Unbreakable Stance like they would any other opponent.

Insert Cringe Here eredeti hozzászólása:

The one swing unblockable is ridiculous too. Unblockables should be a result of a long combo, resulting in a final strike, not a first blow.

Here's a list of characters who have unblockable attacks that can be performed "in isolation" rather than at the end of a combo: Warden, Conqueror, Lawbringer, Raider, Warlord, Valkyrie, Shugoki, and maybe Nobushi (I don't know if her leg kick can be performed in isolation). Here's a list of characters who have unblockable attacks that require some sort of setup: Lawbringer, Kensei, Valkyrie (again), maybe Nobushi.

On top of that, the Shugoki's unblockable is the slowest and most-telegraphed striking attack in the game. It's only useful when you knock an opponent down, or during ganking. It consumes a ton of stamina, and if you parry it he's immediately exhausted. It's a very situational tool, and if it's used outside of that situation it's a very high-risk tool.

Insert Cringe Here eredeti hozzászólása:

He renders most charge moves obsolete as well.

I assume you mean the "sprinting attack" moves? In which case, yeah, he does, in the sense that he can tank the hit with his hyper-armor and then smack + headbutt you or GB you or whatever. Sprinting attacks are also largely nullified by assassins, and arguably the Kensei (dodge-attack), Valkyrie (dodge attack and Full Block stance), Conqueror (uninterruptible bash, Full Block stance), and Warlord (Full Block stance), in a sense. Sprinting attacks shouldn't be universal openers anyway, especially not in a 1v1 situation. And frankly, most of them are so telegraphed anyway that they're parry-bait against any opponent who's paying attention to you. They're really only useful in team matches for charging into an ongoing fray, or running down an opponent who isn't focused on you.

Insert Cringe Here eredeti hozzászólása:

And the back breaker and the *BONK* moves are ridiculous.

Demon Ball actually does fairly little damage—noticeably less than a normal Shugoki heavy attack. Yeah, it's got a lot of knockback, but he can't aim it, so the "shot" has to already be lined up—it's nowhere near the Warlord's ability to carry you from any GB position halfway across the continent in any direction and throw you into the ocean. When the opponent hasn't gifted the Shugoki with the perfect angle, it's primarily more of a reset tool than it is a fight-decider. It can kill someone at one bar of health, but so can any other heavy attack in the game.

Demon's Embrace is, I've noticed, a subject of a lot of angst. However, like the unblockable heavies, it's a very situational tool—it's only confirmed if you throw your enemy into a wall first—and the consequences for failing it makes it the highest-risk (and highest-reward) move in the game. If the Shugoki's unblockable heavies are the slowest, most-telegraphed striking attacks in the game, Demon's Embrace is the slowest, most-telegraphed non-striking attack in the game. I get that its one-hit-kill potential gets under folks' skin, but that's only possible in a very narrow situation, and a situation that is easily avoided by the opponent. Bear in mind that ledge kills are also one-hit-kills, and then think about how easily-accessible a one-hit-kill is for someone like a Warlord compared to a Shugoki.

Insert Cringe Here eredeti hozzászólása:

He changes too much and goes too far against the combat system we have.

I disagree, obviously. The Shugoki not change as much as people think he does, when his abilities are viewed in comparison to the other classes. Most of his tools are situational and require the Shugoki to be very aware of the situation in order to employ them properly. While the hyperarmor can help cover for making one mistake, it's a double-edged sword that can be exploited by a knowledgable opponent.

As with any character, fighting a Shugoki just requires being aware of what he can do and adapting accordingly. You can't fight a Shugoki like you would fight a Kensei, any more than you can fight a Conqueror like you would fight a Peacekeeper. As with all match-ups, you have to change your approach to fit the situation. In my experience, the most complaints about the Shugoki come from people who simply refuse to do that. Opponents who understand what the Shugoki is and what he does never complain about him, because they know how to work around his strengths and exploit his weaknesses.

[GrayHound]

Landwalker04 eredeti hozzászólása:

...the hyperarmor can help cover for making one mistake, it's a double-edged sword that ...

Not true. I tried Shugoki yesterday for the first time and I was dominating high rep players in duels. The trick is to stay away and attack only with hyperarmor, try to bait their GBs that try to remove it and light attack them and use the hyperarmor to intentionally get hit so you get a free GB -> heavy or better yet demon embrace. The fight then turns to 100 % mind game battle but if you can guard well to repleinsh the armor, you'll win.

PKs are a problem, though.

[Saint Landwalker]

GrayHound eredeti hozzászólása:

Landwalker04 eredeti hozzászólása:

...the hyperarmor can help cover for making one mistake, it's a double-edged sword that ...

Not true. I tried Shugoki yesterday for the first time and I was dominating high rep players in duels. The trick is to stay away and attack only with hyperarmor, try to bait their GBs that try to remove it and light attack them and use the hyperarmor to intentionally get hit so you get a free GB -> heavy or better yet demon embrace. The fight then turns to 100 % mind game battle but if you can guard well to repleinsh the armor, you'll win.

PKs are a problem, though.

It is true, but even high-rep players (who I've found are not necessarily high-skill players) sometimes seem completely disinterested in taking advantage of that fact. The Shugoki is the slowest character in the game; if you want to stay away from him, you can stay away from him, and if you want to get close to him, you can get close to him. The Shugoki has a couple of moves to manage distance himself, of course, but anyone who lets the Shugoki dictate the distance of the fight is, well, letting the Shugoki dictate the distance of the fight.

No mistake, classes with multiple fast attack options (Warden, PK, arguably Orochi), or with good range (Nobushi, Valkyrie) certainly have an easier time of this than others. Most people just don't push when they have the chance to, though. Those that do have much better odds.

[Deli]

Why noone never says that assasins and berserkers OP? They have too fast speed and low-combo-dif.
My shug cant defense from them. They're too fast from me. (The animation of shugoku too low)

[Saint Landwalker]

Deli eredeti hozzászólása:

Why noone never says that assasins and berserkers OP? They have too fast speed and low-combo-dif.
My shug cant defense from them. They're too fast from me. (The animation of shugoku too low)

Berserkers have hardly any tools in their bag and requires a lot of mind games to succeed with.

People complain about PKs especially, and Orochi (for some reason) all the time, though.

[Ironclaw]

craze eredeti hozzászólása:

バカ・ネコ Baka Neko eredeti hozzászólása:

And then ? it's just a bug, they will fix it.. other character also had bug.

And you can block, parry, dodge his attack, the character work on you stamina to be abble to reach you, like a lot of other character in the game. I don't see where he can just avoid that.

Ohhh and theres the denial, and its braindead idiots like you that ruin fun games like this, why games become so unbalanced and non-skill based, because autistic weebs like you deny anything being unbalanced or broken.

I'd give this game a couple more months, then it will be dead because of idiots like you.

Shut your loud, whiny, obnoxious ass up.

[Cerebral Daemon]

My only complaint about the Shugoki is on the backbreaker ability. It's hard to land, it requires a very specitic setting to guarantee it, so I consider the fact that it restores health and one-hit kills at critical health fairly fine. However, what I do not consider fine is the fact that, during the backbreaker's animation, the player on the Shugoki's back can still be attacked by other players around. If we look at guardbreaks, which could technically be in the same situation, you see they can't be abused the same way since any attack breaks the guardbreak state; I don't understand why it isn't the same with the backbreaker.

In my opinion, backbreaker should either A) make the player on the Shugoki's back immune to external damage until he's thrown back to the ground, or B) any damage taken by the player on the Shugoki's back should break the animation.

[Cow]

Shugokis hyper armor and stun resistance is managable, but it makes fighting hom have way less openings for attacks which makes it take ages to fight him (no thanks to all that hp) and it gets really boring fighting an average or bad shugoki

[Saint Landwalker]

Cerebral Daemon eredeti hozzászólása:

My only complaint about the Shugoki is on the backbreaker ability. It's hard to land, it requires a very specitic setting to guarantee it, so I consider the fact that it restores health and one-hit kills at critical health fairly fine. However, what I do not consider fine is the fact that, during the backbreaker's animation, the player on the Shugoki's back can still be attacked by other players around. If we look at guardbreaks, which could technically be in the same situation, you see they can't be abused the same way since any attack breaks the guardbreak state; I don't understand why it isn't the same with the backbreaker.

In my opinion, backbreaker should either A) make the player on the Shugoki's back immune to external damage until he's thrown back to the ground, or B) any damage taken by the player on the Shugoki's back should break the animation.

Of course, the Shugoki is also vulnerable to damage during the backbreaker animation. Hell, I've gotten killed that way before.

It's also no different from Long Arm. The character getting flipped is still subject to external attacks (as is the Lawbringer). And, yeah, Long Arm is a lot faster than Demon's Embrace, but it's also repeatable.

[Cow]

Cerebral Daemon eredeti hozzászólása:

My only complaint about the Shugoki is on the backbreaker ability. It's hard to land, it requires a very specitic setting to guarantee it, so I consider the fact that it restores health and one-hit kills at critical health fairly fine. However, what I do not consider fine is the fact that, during the backbreaker's animation, the player on the Shugoki's back can still be attacked by other players around. If we look at guardbreaks, which could technically be in the same situation, you see they can't be abused the same way since any attack breaks the guardbreak state; I don't understand why it isn't the same with the backbreaker.

In my opinion, backbreaker should either A) make the player on the Shugoki's back immune to external damage until he's thrown back to the ground, or B) any damage taken by the player on the Shugoki's back should break the animation.

The whole point of the attack is to be an all or nothing attack, both parties being able to be damaged during it seems fair to me

[GrayHound]

a tangy yet mild taste eredeti hozzászólása:

Cerebral Daemon eredeti hozzászólása:

My only complaint about the Shugoki is on the backbreaker ability. It's hard to land, it requires a very specitic setting to guarantee it, so I consider the fact that it restores health and one-hit kills at critical health fairly fine. However, what I do not consider fine is the fact that, during the backbreaker's animation, the player on the Shugoki's back can still be attacked by other players around. If we look at guardbreaks, which could technically be in the same situation, you see they can't be abused the same way since any attack breaks the guardbreak state; I don't understand why it isn't the same with the backbreaker.

In my opinion, backbreaker should either A) make the player on the Shugoki's back immune to external damage until he's thrown back to the ground, or B) any damage taken by the player on the Shugoki's back should break the animation.

The whole point of the attack is to be an all or nothing attack, both parties being able to be damaged during it seems fair to me

Unless you get wallbanged. Then it's just OP.