Remove out-of-stamina dodge spam.

[RollClassic]

Seriously, when I'm playing a slow character and focus on countering, parrying, and draining stamina, I don't want to get the assassin ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ to zero stamina only to have them spam backstep while I have no way to close the gap. Why even have a stamina system when all they have to do is run away and spam dodge until it's back?

It doesn't even slow down their stamina regeneration.

[Fawkzi]

As an Orochi player I'll tell you this.

1) Dodging is still there but it is slower and doesn't more as far.

2) Just fkin run at us. It's not like we can attack you or turn and sprint.

Also Running out of stamina puts you in to an "Exhausted" state. There's a stat that increases exhaustion recovery.

What you're basically saying is "Oh just make it so all they can do is stand there and let me hit them" Because we have ZERO offence potential when out of stamina. If you take away dodging then all we can do is stand there pretty much.

[4c 61 6e 64 6f]

well, not having many problems with that, i still agree. (warlord)

[RhodosGuard]

Originally posted by Fawkzi:

As an Orochi player I'll tell you this.

1) Dodging is still there but it is slower and doesn't more as far.

2) Just fkin run at us. It's not like we can attack you or turn and sprint.

Also Running out of stamina puts you in to an "Exhausted" state. There's a stat that increases exhaustion recovery.

What you're basically saying is "Oh just make it so all they can do is stand there and let me hit them" Because we have ZERO offence potential when out of stamina. If you take away dodging then all we can do is stand there pretty much.

You can block and you can even parry when exhausted. It just seems unfair that fast classes with good dashes (PK, Oro, Berserk, Valk, Nobu) can outdash any character even when exhausted. There are characters who can't even do much if you cant parry.
At the moment the question is, why I should play a class that has to learn the more difficult mechanics, if I could just go PK or Orochi and outdash them? Just force Orochi and PK players to learn how to parry, like all the other characters have too.

btw, I'm not saying it should use up stamina. If I had a say in this, I'd just want it to be unavailable to do when exhausted. This way you have to learn how to block with assassins and how to parry, like all the other classes have to.

[Snoam]

thats like a archer saying to calv that they need to remove the horse cus its 2 fast
cus the calv are perfect counters to a archer u cant rlly expect the calvary to not use its advantage no?

[RollClassic]

Originally posted by Fawkzi:

As an Orochi player I'll tell you this.

1) Dodging is still there but it is slower and doesn't more as far.

2) Just fkin run at us. It's not like we can attack you or turn and sprint.

Also Running out of stamina puts you in to an "Exhausted" state. There's a stat that increases exhaustion recovery.

What you're basically saying is "Oh just make it so all they can do is stand there and let me hit them" Because we have ZERO offence potential when out of stamina. If you take away dodging then all we can do is stand there pretty much.

"Just ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ run at you" as a shugoki? He has no gap closers, and all you have to do is sidestep the sprint attack to easily avoid it.

Hell, his sprinting charge that's supposed to knock down doesn't do anything while you spam backstep, it'll charge right into you and do nothing. It also only takes 5 seconds to get back to full stamina, and in that time I'd be lucky to get a single hit in.

1v1 also has no gear stats, bud.

[RhodosGuard]

Originally posted by Seishi:

thats like a archer saying to calv that they need to remove the horse cus its 2 fast
cus the calv are perfect counters to a archer u cant rlly expect the calvary to not use its advantage no?

We are not talking realistic battle scenarios here. We are talking about a game, where I land in duel mode without seeing what the enemy picked until I'm ingame. What am I supposed to do when I mainly want to play the lawbringer, just give up every round because Assassins have mechanics that to outplay would take double the skill the assassin needs to outplay me?

[FrenziedRoach]

stamina is to put an end to OFFENSIVE play. If she's out of stamina, that means she can't attack you effectively. Has NOTHING to do with defense.

[Snoam]

Originally posted by RhodosGuard:

Originally posted by Seishi:

thats like a archer saying to calv that they need to remove the horse cus its 2 fast
cus the calv are perfect counters to a archer u cant rlly expect the calvary to not use its advantage no?

We are not talking realistic battle scenarios here. We are talking about a game, where I land in duel mode without seeing what the enemy picked until I'm ingame. What am I supposed to do when I mainly want to play the lawbringer, just give up every round because Assassins have mechanics that to outplay would take double the skill the assassin needs to outplay me?

well iv never played lawbringer but if i was going against a assassin i would try to parry n grab to counter the assassin not try to go out swinging (i play assassin cus i suck and parrys and countering grabs so i cant rlly say anything though)

[RhodosGuard]

Originally posted by FrenziedRoach:

stamina is to put an end to OFFENSIVE play. If she's out of stamina, that means she can't attack you effectively. Has NOTHING to do with defense.

It has. Immensely. When you play a mainly defensive class, like the lawbringer, then your strategy almost always contains "Make them run out of stamina, because I have to parry to set up moves" Meaning, that those classes offensive utilities are bound to what the enemy can do when they run out of stamina. If I cant use my main offensive utensil, because to outplay it, all the enemy has to do is sidestep and backdash, then there really is a concern as to how defensive you should be able to be in the exhausted state

[RollClassic]

Originally posted by RhodosGuard:

Originally posted by Seishi:

thats like a archer saying to calv that they need to remove the horse cus its 2 fast
cus the calv are perfect counters to a archer u cant rlly expect the calvary to not use its advantage no?

We are not talking realistic battle scenarios here. We are talking about a game, where I land in duel mode without seeing what the enemy picked until I'm ingame. What am I supposed to do when I mainly want to play the lawbringer, just give up every round because Assassins have mechanics that to outplay would take double the skill the assassin needs to outplay me?

It's more like the assassins and a couple other characters have the ability to mash attacks that are fast and do high damage, run out of stamina, and then harmlessly dodge away until their stamina is back.

While slower classes like the Shugoki, Lawbringer, and Raider to an extent that have to rely on parries and counter attacking, that can't even dodge WITH stamina, and in Shugoki's case will run out of stamina in about 2 swings (Not an exaggeration, one heavy followed by a heavy that gets blocked or parried and you're out of stamina. Otherwise it takes 3 swings), you HAVE to learn to parry and you HAVE to just stand there and take it, because you're already slow before being out of stamina, good luck hitting ANYTHING when you're exhausted.

There's just no punishment for assassins to run themselves out of stamina or get parried repeatedly. As a Shugoki main, if I parry I can get a single light attack and a headbutt (sometimes that won't even work), and my light attack does as much or less than an Orochi's. The Orochi gets a free second hit if his first one lands, and he attacks at twice my speed. Why does he also need the ability to just spam backstep and make me chase him and STILL not hit him?

Stamina management should matter more for assassins, you shouldn't get away with spamming dodge attacks until you've run yourself out of stamina and not be punished like the slower classes are for attacking less.

[RhodosGuard]

Originally posted by Seishi:

Originally posted by RhodosGuard:

We are not talking realistic battle scenarios here. We are talking about a game, where I land in duel mode without seeing what the enemy picked until I'm ingame. What am I supposed to do when I mainly want to play the lawbringer, just give up every round because Assassins have mechanics that to outplay would take double the skill the assassin needs to outplay me?

well iv never played lawbringer but if i was going against a assassin i would try to parry n grab to counter the assassin not try to go out swinging (i play assassin cus i suck and parrys and countering grabs so i cant rlly say anything though)

You know that to inflict damage I have to attack them? And as a slow character, I have small windows even after parrys and grabs, so much so, that I can get 1 light attack of securely before assassins can just dash and step away.

[Aberardus]

Oh man, this is the same shugoki that I beat in a 1v1. Rofl hes complaining b/c the dodge spam.

[RhodosGuard]

Originally posted by RollClassic:

Originally posted by RhodosGuard:

We are not talking realistic battle scenarios here. We are talking about a game, where I land in duel mode without seeing what the enemy picked until I'm ingame. What am I supposed to do when I mainly want to play the lawbringer, just give up every round because Assassins have mechanics that to outplay would take double the skill the assassin needs to outplay me?

It's more like the assassins and a couple other characters have the ability to mash attacks that are fast and do high damage, run out of stamina, and then harmlessly dodge away until their stamina is back.

While slower classes like the Shugoki, Lawbringer, and Raider to an extent that have to rely on parries and counter attacking, that can't even dodge WITH stamina, and in Shugoki's case will run out of stamina in about 2 swings (Not an exaggeration, one heavy followed by a heavy that gets blocked or parried and you're out of stamina. Otherwise it takes 3 swings), you HAVE to learn to parry and you HAVE to just stand there and take it, because you're already slow before being out of stamina, good luck hitting ANYTHING when you're exhausted.

There's just no punishment for assassins to run themselves out of stamina or get parried repeatedly. As a Shugoki main, if I parry I can get a single light attack and a headbutt (sometimes that won't even work), and my light attack does as much or less than an Orochi's. The Orochi gets a free second hit if his first one lands, and he attacks at twice my speed. Why does he also need the ability to just spam backstep and make me chase him and STILL not hit him?

Stamina management should matter more for assassins, you shouldn't get away with spamming dodge attacks until you've run yourself out of stamina and not be punished like the slower classes are for attacking less.

This. (btw. Lawbringers can sometimes run out of stamina from one heavy attack being parried.)

[RollClassic]

Originally posted by ȺƀɇɍȺɍđᵾs:

Oh man, this is the same shugoki that I beat in a 1v1. Rofl hes complaining b/c the dodge spam.

I doubt it, I've only played three 1v1s, and won 2/3 of them. The loss was an orochi that I parried 75% of the time, drained his stamina 2-3 times each fight, and all he would have to do is mash backstep until his stamina was back. Literally no punishment for somebody being bad and getting parried consistently.

[KongKK]

Valid point. Lets see how the game changes over time.