For Honor

For Honor

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MacaroniBurger 2017 年 5 月 22 日 下午 9:22
Raider still needs buffs.
Im not saying much, but why make his zone a key part of his kit... when it costs SO much stamina to perform? Plus, his mixups from it also takes stamina. Also, if you're in a combo, and you do your zone, and they guess right and parry it, you're oos and on the ground fromg a gb. I know "He's in a good place" but still, he cant compete with any of the high ranks. Also you can just cancel out his zone mixups with a simple light attack. *Cough* buff raider's zone *cough*.
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目前顯示第 16-30 則留言,共 33
Gromit 2017 年 5 月 23 日 上午 12:50 
引用自 Macaroni Burger
Im not saying much, but why make his zone a key part of his kit... when it costs SO much stamina to perform? Plus, his mixups from it also takes stamina. Also, if you're in a combo, and you do your zone, and they guess right and parry it, you're oos and on the ground fromg a gb. I know "He's in a good place" but still, he cant compete with any of the high ranks. Also you can just cancel out his zone mixups with a simple light attack. *Cough* buff raider's zone *cough*.

Do what every other good raider does and feint area into top stun, then mix up heavy swings and lights
Ultra 2017 年 5 月 23 日 上午 12:51 
引用自 Snuggles
引用自 Macaroni Burger
Im not saying much, but why make his zone a key part of his kit... when it costs SO much stamina to perform? Plus, his mixups from it also takes stamina. Also, if you're in a combo, and you do your zone, and they guess right and parry it, you're oos and on the ground fromg a gb. I know "He's in a good place" but still, he cant compete with any of the high ranks. Also you can just cancel out his zone mixups with a simple light attack. *Cough* buff raider's zone *cough*.

Do what every other good raider does and feint area into top stun, then mix up heavy swings and lights

thats not a real mix up caus you can just dodge... both attack have the same dodge window
Howyoudoin' 2017 年 5 月 23 日 上午 12:51 
引用自 Ultra
引用自 Howyoudoin'
No....

ehhh what do you mean by that no you don't want raider to be buffed or no you don't think this is good to make him top tier
Those aren't buff I'd call them lazy work. This list dosen't even try to balance this game, I'm sorry this "buff" you call it isn't my cup of tea.
DarkPhoton 2017 年 5 月 23 日 上午 1:05 
Its shown in tournaments already that raider will keep even the pros guessing. Look at the group d plays from the recent season 2 priemiere tournament on youtube, where truetalent against some of the top players used raider and they guessed the feints of zone wrong and got destroyed by mindgames. It doesnt work 100% of the time of course, if anything did it'd be op, but it works even against high tier players and this should be enough. And if you are out of stam, raider is incredibly scary, again seen in tourneys, as they have a huge 90 damage combo when you're out o stam and even if you cant get in position to pull it off the mind games of feinting your zone is incredibly - I often saw even top players try parry it and the raider feints and parries your parry attempt. You cann play safe and block a zone, and oos makes it so that you are thrown to the group and cannot dodge. Youu basically have to react with a parry or guess hes gonna feint and dont. 50/50.

With the buf we have even more options to get people out of stam too, like carrying them for some distance etc.

This means maybe a small push in the right direction should be enough to push the raider to compete with the top, as his mind game mix up is strong as it is, strong enough to beat tournament level players, against highest tier classes like warden. I would recommend maybe a guaranteed side heavy on gb and / or slightly faster zone to really punish those that are the most calm and skilled at seeing whether you feint it or not.
最後修改者:DarkPhoton; 2017 年 5 月 23 日 上午 1:08
DROPbear 2017 年 5 月 23 日 上午 1:12 
Raiders zone unblockable is used as a parry bait, so you could do a stunning tap.

Raider really dependent on mindgames, and a crappier version of zerker, low dmg, slow stance change, slow attack speed.

Right now, most ppl just feint heavy then spam lights or stunning tap as main source of dmg
Ultra 2017 年 5 月 23 日 上午 1:28 
引用自 Howyoudoin'
引用自 Ultra

ehhh what do you mean by that no you don't want raider to be buffed or no you don't think this is good to make him top tier
Those aren't buff I'd call them lazy work. This list dosen't even try to balance this game, I'm sorry this "buff" you call it isn't my cup of tea.

if those are not buff what is a buff for you ??? give raider heabutt ... give raider shoulder bash vortex ? make raders light 400 ms ?
Comrad YUmad 2017 年 5 月 23 日 上午 1:34 
Actually there's a few changes that can make Raider top tier:

1. Hyper armor on zone and stunning tap, that way they can't be interrupted by any light attack in the game.
2. Increase the feint window to 200ms before hit, that way Raider's mixup is unreactable and the opponent must guess where the attack will be coming from instead of waiting for the feint window to pass and react, making it a true 50/50, or technically 25/25/25/25.
3. Guarantee heavy on wallsplat.
4. Remove hyper armor from face kneed opponent so they can't GB the raider when the raider light them.
最後修改者:Comrad YUmad; 2017 年 5 月 23 日 上午 1:37
DarkPhoton 2017 年 5 月 23 日 上午 1:42 
引用自 UrWaifuIsAPillow
Actually there's a few changes that can make Raider top tier:

1. Hyper armor on zone and stunning tap, that way they can't be interrupted by any light attack in the game.
2. Increase the feint window to 200ms before hit, that way Raider's mixup is unreactable and the opponent must guess where the attack will be coming from instead of waiting for the feint window to pass and react, making it a true 50/50, or technically 25/25/25/25.
3. Guarantee heavy on wallsplat.
4. Remove hyper armor from face kneed opponent so they can't GB the raider when the raider light them.

There is already a guaranteed heavy on wallsplat, side heavy. Top heav y even if you throw him enough distance into the wall. Theey need to add guaranteed heavy on gb. You dont get much of a gb without a wall atm.
Comrad YUmad 2017 年 5 月 23 日 上午 1:43 
引用自 DarkPhoton
Its shown in tournaments already that raider will keep even the pros guessing. Look at the group d plays from the recent season 2 priemiere tournament on youtube, where truetalent against some of the top players used raider and they guessed the feints of zone wrong and got destroyed by mindgames. It doesnt work 100% of the time of course, if anything did it'd be op, but it works even against high tier players and this should be enough. And if you are out of stam, raider is incredibly scary, again seen in tourneys, as they have a huge 90 damage combo when you're out o stam and even if you cant get in position to pull it off the mind games of feinting your zone is incredibly - I often saw even top players try parry it and the raider feints and parries your parry attempt. You cann play safe and block a zone, and oos makes it so that you are thrown to the group and cannot dodge. Youu basically have to react with a parry or guess hes gonna feint and dont. 50/50.

With the buf we have even more options to get people out of stam too, like carrying them for some distance etc.

This means maybe a small push in the right direction should be enough to push the raider to compete with the top, as his mind game mix up is strong as it is, strong enough to beat tournament level players, against highest tier classes like warden. I would recommend maybe a guaranteed side heavy on gb and / or slightly faster zone to really punish those that are the most calm and skilled at seeing whether you feint it or not.

Dude stop, the "pros" that Tru3talent fought against were streamers, no pro players, and they were average at best, I had no idea how they got invited.

The only pro players in that tournament were Petemoo, SypherPK and iSkys.
Comrad YUmad 2017 年 5 月 23 日 上午 1:44 
引用自 DarkPhoton
There is already a guaranteed heavy on wallsplat, side heavy. Top heav y even if you throw him enough distance into the wall. Theey need to add guaranteed heavy on gb. You dont get much of a gb without a wall atm.

Nope, not reliable because it depends alot on the thrown distance, and guaranteed heavy on GB will be broken AF because of dashing GB making GB guaranteed off dodging light attack.
最後修改者:Comrad YUmad; 2017 年 5 月 23 日 上午 1:44
DarkPhoton 2017 年 5 月 23 日 上午 1:55 
引用自 UrWaifuIsAPillow
引用自 DarkPhoton
There is already a guaranteed heavy on wallsplat, side heavy. Top heav y even if you throw him enough distance into the wall. Theey need to add guaranteed heavy on gb. You dont get much of a gb without a wall atm.

Nope, not reliable because it depends alot on the thrown distance, and guaranteed heavy on GB will be broken AF because of dashing GB making GB guaranteed off dodging light attack.

Kensei also has dashing gb and gauranteed heavy on gb, and it snot op, Ive seen it often. As for the pro players thing, they weren't "pro" but they were high tier enough, the orochi was an incredibly high winrate player. Also sypherPK won third in a tourney with raider and shugoki, with more than half the wins with raider. There were pro players in that for sure, go look it up, there was a prize pool. He lost to a shugoki who could do glitch techs (flash indicator cancel light feint etc). And this was pre raider buff. And that was before any changes to the pk to make her slightly weaker, and he used raider to destroy pks cuz he was good at parrying and the mind games side messed up the pks. The only match up he said was incredibly dificult was against warlord.

He has good mind games and mix ups, and very strong when the opponents are out off stamina - now with tools to make the opponent out of stam. Big drain on the knee and carry.

Ps. heavy side on wall is reliable, its guarantee any throw distance unless the wall is literally at the throw point. Go try it. Its the top heavy thats not guaranteed, but top heavy damage on raider is incredibly high so that might be too strong iff they make it like that.
最後修改者:DarkPhoton; 2017 年 5 月 23 日 上午 2:03
Comrad YUmad 2017 年 5 月 23 日 上午 2:02 
引用自 DarkPhoton
引用自 UrWaifuIsAPillow

Nope, not reliable because it depends alot on the thrown distance, and guaranteed heavy on GB will be broken AF because of dashing GB making GB guaranteed off dodging light attack.

Kensei also has dashing gb and gauranteed heavy on gb, and it snot op, Ive seen it often. As for the pro players thing, they weren't "pro" but they were high tier enough, the orochi was an incredibly high winrate player. Also sypherPK won third in a tourney with raider and shugoki, with more than half the wins with raider. There were pro players in that for sure, go look it up, there was a prize pool. He lost to a shugoki who could do glitch techs (flash indicator cancel light feint etc). And this was pre raider buff. And they was before any changes to the pk to make her slightly weaker, and he used raider to destroy pks cuz he was good at parrying and the mind games side messed up the pks. The only match up he said was incredibly dificult was against warlord.

He has good mind games and mix ups, and very strong when the opponents are out off stamina - now with tools to make the opponent out of stam. Big drain on the knee and carry.

First, Sypher only used Raider pre-buff because in that tournament forced players to use a different hero with every game, and Raider pre-patch actually had a much better mind game because of unlock techs leaving the opponent guessing whether the attack is parriable or not. And as we've seen post patch, Raider dropped entirely out of tournament.

And guaranteed heavy on GB would be broken on Raider but not kensei because:

1. Raider can dodge GB at any direction, Kensei only forward.
2. Raider's heavy does 40 damage, Kensei's GB heavy only does 30.

Ps. heavy side on wall is reliable, its guarantee. Go try it. Its the top heavy thats not guaranteed, but top heavy damage on raider is incredibly high so that might be too strong iff they make it like that.

No, it's depend a lot on the distance and direction that is relative to the raider, most of the times it works but sometimes it doesn't, and for a hero that struggles to get any damage in as raider it really ♥♥♥♥♥ over him.
最後修改者:Comrad YUmad; 2017 年 5 月 23 日 上午 2:04
DarkPhoton 2017 年 5 月 23 日 上午 2:10 
引用自 UrWaifuIsAPillow

No, it's depend a lot on the distance and direction that is relative to the raider, most of the times it works but sometimes it doesn't, and for a hero that struggles to get any damage in as raider it really ♥♥♥♥♥ over him.

We will have to see if raiders appear again, but I'm sure im doing better with him after patch I'm not pro but im at a decent level and at the stage where I needed anything to push him up to beat the better players I was coming up against, and it wasnt "luck" that immediately improve my matchup against the better wardens and warlords I was struggling with.

Kensei's top heavy vs raider side heavy is not that big of difference, i said side heavy after gb should be added not top. Also, kensei top heavy also gives him his chance to mix up right after and thats very dangerous, and thats from every dash + gb. A simple side heavy off of a gb like EVErY one gets is not op for raider.

The side heavy is guarantee man, against others that parry 100% every single attack I don't feint its not an accident that they fail to block the side heavy. 100% of the time. It only fails if you dojnt throw and you put them in a wall, i.e. the wall is at the point of the throw. I tested this, test with a friend, just tell him to keep the block direction at the place you will heavy, throw him in a wall and hevay that side. Guaranteed everytime aside from the minor case I pointed out. Thing is if you are that extremely close to the wall, you just swing them around and throw them in that way, or pressure them with their back against the wall. You can get their stam down with the knee easily and when they are out of stam its the raider's most op stage.
最後修改者:DarkPhoton; 2017 年 5 月 23 日 上午 2:14
DarkPhoton 2017 年 5 月 23 日 上午 2:16 
Just checked, raider side heavy is same damage as kensei's top heavy, so it wont be as op as you think, not to mention kensei relies on his unblockable feint mix ups which they get after the gb + top heavy. Also if dodges lights and gb -> side heavy would be op, why isnt it now? You can do the same thing but knee to wall + light or zone and just rinse and repeat.
最後修改者:DarkPhoton; 2017 年 5 月 23 日 上午 2:18
Comrad YUmad 2017 年 5 月 23 日 上午 2:29 
引用自 DarkPhoton
We will have to see if raiders appear again, but I'm sure im doing better with him after patch I'm not pro but im at a decent level and at the stage where I needed anything to push him up to beat the better players I was coming up against, and it wasnt "luck" that immediately improve my matchup against the better wardens and warlords I was struggling with.

Sure, you'll do better if you've always been playing him properly, and at low mid tier, and never used unlock techs.

Kensei's top heavy vs raider side heavy is not that big of difference, i said side heavy after gb should be added not top. Also, kensei top heavy also gives him his chance to mix up right after and thats very dangerous, and thats from every dash + gb. A simple side heavy off of a gb like EVErY one gets is not op for raider.

Here's this thing that you forgot to test:

Kensei's top heavy only does 40 damage against non GBed opponent, against GBed opponent, it only does 20 damage, so you're left with a 30 damage side heavy.

Also, like I've said, Kensei only get dashing GB with forward dash, Raider can dashing GB from with dashing from any direction.

Also Kensei's mixed up is useless because it's so easy to react to, as long as you're not a parry ♥♥♥♥♥ and wait for the top unblockable to go past feintable.

The side heavy is guarantee man, against others that parry 100% every single attack I don't feint its not an accident that they fail to block the side heavy. 100% of the time. It only fails if you dojnt throw and you put them in a wall, i.e. the wall is at the point of the throw. I tested this, test with a friend, just tell him to keep the block direction at the place you will heavy, throw him in a wall and hevay that side. Guaranteed everytime aside from the minor case I pointed out. Thing is if you are that extremely close to the wall, you just swing them around and throw them in that way

Nope, sometimes it work, sometimes it doesn't, also varies a lot between different heroes

or pressure them with their back against the wall. You can get their stam down with the knee easily and when they are out of stam its the raider's most op stage.

Here's the thing about the knee to face:

1. The opponent get hyper armor so they can GB you if you choose to follow up with any attack.

2. It also drains a lot of Raider's own stamina so you're left with not much mixup potential after that.
最後修改者:Comrad YUmad; 2017 年 5 月 23 日 上午 2:35
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張貼日期: 2017 年 5 月 22 日 下午 9:22
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