If only it had Action combat with Skillshots (like Tera)

[Ǵ̶͓̂͑lí̴̤̀̄́tcĥ̸]

Or better yet, Blade and Soul, or Monster Hunter (Tera was a bit too much "click click, click and hold" - I prefer a bit more variance and especially timing rather than just hack-n-slash) it would basically be perfect. Sucks it went with the oldschool tab-targeting MMO style combat. That combat is more about hours grinding and meta builds, which isn't even fun or creative anymore because people will just post the best builds online and everyone will copy them (before, people would spend upwards of years figuring this out - now, internet) - this means skill is out the door, and the only reward is time played and being in the best guild for endgame dungeon runs for the best gear, something a lone player or smaller guild can never accomplish.

Major major bummer.

[Ǵ̶͓̂͑lí̴̤̀̄́tcĥ̸]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Resonator:

If you were able to get past this ridiculous preconceived notion that there is absolutely no sort of skill beyond “memorizing” involved

Got to that fragment and stopped reading. Because apparently while reading my posts, so did you. Read them again, then reply. I never said it was only memorization, I said what was described by others (knowing who to attack first and the like) is memorization, which is not skill. Context is important, yo!

I already covered other aspects, and summarized the rest by saying, AGAIN FOR THE THIRD TIME NOW, that Skill(shot)/Action/Whatever you want to call it combat requires all the same skills as tab-targeting, AND MORE. Tab-targeting detriments skill, it removes requirements. This is why without proper gear certain PVE mobs are impossible in tab-targeting games. NEVER THE CASE in an action-combat, where you can solo certain bosses because you're simply a badass.

Making fights look interesting has nothing to do with skill. Come endgame when your build is made, you have only a few jobs - targeting specific characters you're meant to kill, laying out your hotkeys so you can easily press the same combination of attacks a 100 times or until your opponent is dead with an occasional timed counter or whatever. That's it, that sums up the combat. Once you do this, it is 100% about gear and stats, nothing more. Again, not the case with Action-Combat.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από mathilda-cleaner:

Sounds like its your ego not mine, YOU'RE the one trying to get a game changed and its your opinion that those games are boring. In fact, thats just my point, not everyone thinks these types of games are boring, why does only your opinion matter?

Trying to get a game changed? Why does only my opinion matter?

When did I imply either of these. By saying it's too bad it's not action-combat? So expressing my opinion in the first place is 1) making other's opinions not matter and 2) attempting to change the game. Yet others can come in here and act as if I'm wrong, then say the kind of s**t you just did. So hypocritical and yet blind to it. Do I have to say "IMO" after every sentence or something? S**t man.

Everything I've stated here has been a counter to some other argument someone stated. Not once did I say nobody's opinion mattered, not once did I even imply that. If I was 'trying to get the game changed' I would be petitioning and posting on their actual forum, not the Steam one. This is...pretty basic s**t.

[Kyoko]

Actually everything you've said on counter argument has been disrespectful and pretty much you trying to shove your opinion (on what "skill" is) down our throats. If you don't like this game, don't play it. I am really enjoying the combat.

[neoVictrix]

While it would be interesting to see how ArcheAge would've been if XL Games had developed it with more of an active/dynamic/action/whatever-you-want-to-call-it battle system, it doesn't mean that it would have made the game any better than what it is right now.

What I find amusing in this thread is the discussion of what is defined as skill. In both systems, you're doing much of the same calculations when it comes to timing - NPC enemies follow a pattern of attacking as defined by their AI, and the player adjusts accordingly to keep the fight in their favor (this could be anywhere from dodging, to activating a defense skill, or simply moving out of the way).

In both systems, gear makes up a large percentage of the outcome of a battle - while it is a bit easier to do in action-based games due to being able to have timed dodges, it's still a difficult (and often time-consuming) thing to do.

Honestly, there hasn't been a real skill-based MMO in years, and there likely won't be for a few more years. While we have games like Tera, RaiderZ, Black Desert Online, Kingdom Under Fire 2, etc to help feed that want for a more dynamic combat system, they still abide by the same rules and numbers of the traditional combat system.

[Ǵ̶͓̂͑lí̴̤̀̄́tcĥ̸]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από mathilda-cleaner:

Actually everything you've said on counter argument has been disrespectful and pretty much you trying to shove your opinion (on what "skill" is) down our throats. If you don't like this game, don't play it. I am really enjoying the combat.

Disrespectful =/= grit. If a curse word hurts your feelings, oh well. Shoving my opinion down your throat...lol, you're way too damn sensitive. I don't feel sorry for you at all, sorry. My definition of skill is objective, based on the mechanics, period. You disagreeing with that despite being wrong isn't me shoving my opinion down your throat, because it isn't an opinion to begin with. Memorization is not a skill, period. And I didn't say memorization was all there was to AA, nor did I say AA didn't require skill. In fact, that last sentence is probably the fifth time I've said that very same thing. People acting like I said otherwise is pure bulls**t and lack of proper understanding of context. Their fault, your fault. Not mine, as I wrote it clearly.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από neoVictrix:

While it would be interesting to see how ArcheAge would've been if XL Games had developed it with more of an active/dynamic/action/whatever-you-want-to-call-it battle system, it doesn't mean that it would have made the game any better than what it is right now.

What I find amusing in this thread is the discussion of what is defined as skill. In both systems, you're doing much of the same calculations when it comes to timing - NPC enemies follow a pattern of attacking as defined by their AI, and the player adjusts accordingly to keep the fight in their favor (this could be anywhere from dodging, to activating a defense skill, or simply moving out of the way).

In both systems, gear makes up a large percentage of the outcome of a battle - while it is a bit easier to do in action-based games due to being able to have timed dodges, it's still a difficult (and often time-consuming) thing to do.

Honestly, there hasn't been a real skill-based MMO in years, and there likely won't be for a few more years. While we have games like Tera, RaiderZ, Black Desert Online, Kingdom Under Fire 2, etc to help feed that want for a more dynamic combat system, they still abide by the same rules and numbers of the traditional combat system.

I already said, about 50 times, that action-combat requires the same as tab-targeting. I also said, about 50 times, that it also requires MUCH MORE. No, stats and gear do not make up the outcome of the fight in both systems. That is absolute pure and utter fallacy.

Stats and gear probably 80% determines the outcome in a PVP fight with tab-targeting, the other 20% being memorization and the fairly miniscule level of skill required. In PVE, stats and gear 100% determine the outcome, period. Without the right amount of each, you simply cannot beat certain bosses - it is impossible, no matter the skill you have.

In Action combat, stats and gear determing maybe 40% in PVP tops, and that's being generous. It's an advantage. But a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ player with the 4th tier gear will get DESTROYED by a great player with even 2nd tier gear. PVE? Total opposite of tab-targeting. You can actually dodge ♥♥♥♥ and not have a CD for your dodge roll or whatever, by reading enemy trajectory and animations and getting the f*ck out of the way. If you can't aim properly, you will miss the enemy over and over again. Etc. etc.

[Tytos]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Chillin':

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Resonator:

If you were able to get past this ridiculous preconceived notion that there is absolutely no sort of skill beyond “memorizing” involved

Got to that fragment and stopped reading. Because apparently while reading my posts, so did you. Read them again, then reply. I never said it was only memorization, I said what was described by others (knowing who to attack first and the like) is memorization, which is not skill. Context is important, yo!

I already covered other aspects, and summarized the rest by saying, AGAIN FOR THE THIRD TIME NOW, that Skill(shot)/Action/Whatever you want to call it combat requires all the same skills as tab-targeting, AND MORE. Tab-targeting detriments skill, it removes requirements. This is why without proper gear certain PVE mobs are impossible in tab-targeting games. NEVER THE CASE in an action-combat, where you can solo certain bosses because you're simply a badass.

Making fights look interesting has nothing to do with skill. Come endgame when your build is made, you have only a few jobs - targeting specific characters you're meant to kill, laying out your hotkeys so you can easily press the same combination of attacks a 100 times or until your opponent is dead with an occasional timed counter or whatever. That's it, that sums up the combat. Once you do this, it is 100% about gear and stats, nothing more. Again, not the case with Action-Combat.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από mathilda-cleaner:

Sounds like its your ego not mine, YOU'RE the one trying to get a game changed and its your opinion that those games are boring. In fact, thats just my point, not everyone thinks these types of games are boring, why does only your opinion matter?

Trying to get a game changed? Why does only my opinion matter?

When did I imply either of these. By saying it's too bad it's not action-combat? So expressing my opinion in the first place is 1) making other's opinions not matter and 2) attempting to change the game. Yet others can come in here and act as if I'm wrong, then say the kind of s**t you just did. So hypocritical and yet blind to it. Do I have to say "IMO" after every sentence or something? S**t man.

Everything I've stated here has been a counter to some other argument someone stated. Not once did I say nobody's opinion mattered, not once did I even imply that. If I was 'trying to get the game changed' I would be petitioning and posting on their actual forum, not the Steam one. This is...pretty basic s**t.

People disagree with you; get over it.

[Tytos]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Chillin':

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από mathilda-cleaner:

Actually everything you've said on counter argument has been disrespectful and pretty much you trying to shove your opinion (on what "skill" is) down our throats. If you don't like this game, don't play it. I am really enjoying the combat.

Disrespectful =/= grit. If a curse word hurts your feelings, oh well. Shoving my opinion down your throat...lol, you're way too damn sensitive. I don't feel sorry for you at all, sorry. My definition of skill is objective, based on the mechanics, period. You disagreeing with that despite being wrong isn't me shoving my opinion down your throat, because it isn't an opinion to begin with. Memorization is not a skill, period. And I didn't say memorization was all there was to AA, nor did I say AA didn't require skill. In fact, that last sentence is probably the fifth time I've said that very same thing. People acting like I said otherwise is pure bulls**t and lack of proper understanding of context. Their fault, your fault. Not mine, as I wrote it clearly.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από neoVictrix:

While it would be interesting to see how ArcheAge would've been if XL Games had developed it with more of an active/dynamic/action/whatever-you-want-to-call-it battle system, it doesn't mean that it would have made the game any better than what it is right now.

What I find amusing in this thread is the discussion of what is defined as skill. In both systems, you're doing much of the same calculations when it comes to timing - NPC enemies follow a pattern of attacking as defined by their AI, and the player adjusts accordingly to keep the fight in their favor (this could be anywhere from dodging, to activating a defense skill, or simply moving out of the way).

In both systems, gear makes up a large percentage of the outcome of a battle - while it is a bit easier to do in action-based games due to being able to have timed dodges, it's still a difficult (and often time-consuming) thing to do.

Honestly, there hasn't been a real skill-based MMO in years, and there likely won't be for a few more years. While we have games like Tera, RaiderZ, Black Desert Online, Kingdom Under Fire 2, etc to help feed that want for a more dynamic combat system, they still abide by the same rules and numbers of the traditional combat system.

I already said, about 50 times not, that action-combat requires the same as tab-targeting. I also said, about 50 times, that it also requires MUCH MORE. No, stats and gear do not make up the outcome of the fight in both systems. That is absolute pure and utter fallacy.

Stats and gear probably 80% determines the outcome in a PVP fight with tab-targeting, the other 20% being memorization and the fairly miniscule level of skill required. In PVE, stats and gear 100% determine the outcome, period. Without the right amount of each, you simply cannot beat certain bosses - it is impossible, no matter the skill you have.

In Action combat, stats and gear determing maybe 40% in PVP tops, and that's being generous. It's an advantage. But a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ player with the 4th tier gear will get DESTROYED by a great player with even 2nd tier gear. PVE? Total opposite of tab-targeting. You can actually dodge ♥♥♥♥ and not have a CD for your dodge roll or whatever, by reading enemy trajectory and animations and getting the f*ck out of the way. If you can't aim properly, you will miss the enemy over and over again. Etc. etc.

This (“I don't feel sorry for you at all, sorry”) exemplifies the entirety of your responses; oxymoronic.

[Ǵ̶͓̂͑lí̴̤̀̄́tcĥ̸]

I've been over it. I was never not. I also said you and I could agree to disagree and you could bounce, but you refuse. I'm still here because this is my thread. Why are you still here?

Also, most of what people disagree with is objective and they're wrong, like memorization being a skill.

If you don't think the combat is boring like I do, fine. I never said anyone was wrong on that did I? It's certainly a lot more casual (this is not debateable whether you like it or not), and I find casual boring. You don't like it, maybe YOU should get over it. I'm not pandering to people's soft definitions and double-standards for the sake of being "respectful" or whatever, because I'm not a fool who does that kind of thing. Doing so keeps people stupid. Too many people do it, which is why there are so many stupid people (better say I'm not talking about you before you take that personally too). You can get over that too if you'd like.

EDIT to your second: That's how I am, and I don't feel sorry for people that get bent out of shape because I say f*ck in a post. Why the hell should I? I don't expect you to adjust your lingo to me, though I point out your obviously lame attempts at being clever because I find it funny. If you consider it toxic, leave. Make your own thread and I won't be in it.

[Tytos]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Chillin':

I've been over it. I was never not. I also said you and I could agree to disagree and you could bounce, but you refuse. I'm still here because this is my thread. Why are you still here?

Also, most of what people disagree with is objective and they're wrong, like memorization being a skill.

If you don't think the combat is boring like I do, fine. I never said anyone was wrong on that did I? It's certainly a lot more casual (this is not debateable whether you like it or not), and I find casual boring. You don't like it, maybe YOU should get over it. I'm not pandering to people's soft definitions and double-standards for the sake of being "respectful" or whatever, because I'm not a fool who does that kind of thing. You can get over that too if you'd like.

Your understanding of what represents a truth and what represents an opinion is incredibly skewed. This, in part, explains much of the confusion in your posts.

[Ǵ̶͓̂͑lí̴̤̀̄́tcĥ̸]

It isn't skewed. But think what you want. Your feeling of being under attack is blinding you and all you want is to prove me wrong or something at this point.

[The Zombie Collector]

Dude he is just asking for a deeper combat system... This combat in AAis so freaking 1 dimensional and boring. It just feels numb. New age gamers looking for some more skill now.
Thats all

[Tytos]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Chillin':

It isn't skewed. But think what you want. Your feeling of being under attack is blinding you and all you want is to prove me wrong or something at this point.

Does it sound like I’m under attack? I’m merely highlighting errors in your argument.

[Lowkey]

How in the world is thread still alive? A thread that serves no pupose.

A game that is getting close to release and a thread pops ups asking "Why cant AA be a different game" Should be be treated with a dismissive attitude and crass remarks.

Instead we have few people desperately trying to agrue their your own personal preferance in MMOs and termanology?

I guess its true that the Internet is for masterbation of the non-sexual variety as well

[Tytos]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Lowkey:

How in the world is thread still alive? A thread that serves no pupose.

A game that is getting close to release and a thread pops ups asking "Why cant AA be a different game" Should be be treated with a dismissive attitude and crass remarks.

Instead we have few people desperately trying to agrue their your own personal preferance in MMOs and termanology?

I guess its true that the Internet is for masterbation of the non-sexual variety as well

And your response differs from this, how?

[neoVictrix]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Chillin':

No, stats and gear do not make up the outcome of the fight in both systems. That is absolute pure and utter fallacy.

Stats and gear probably 80% determines the outcome in a PVP fight with tab-targeting, the other 20% being memorization and the fairly miniscule level of skill required. In PVE, stats and gear 100% determine the outcome, period. Without the right amount of each, you simply cannot beat certain bosses - it is impossible, no matter the skill you have.

In Action combat, stats and gear determing maybe 40% in PVP tops, and that's being generous. It's an advantage. But a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ player with the 4th tier gear will get DESTROYED by a great player with even 2nd tier gear. PVE? Total opposite of tab-targeting. You can actually dodge ♥♥♥♥ and not have a CD for your dodge roll or whatever, by reading enemy trajectory and animations and getting the f*ck out of the way. If you can't aim properly, you will miss the enemy over and over again. Etc. etc.

But would you not agree that, even in PVP, part of it comes down to knowledge of how the game and its systems work?

A bad player is a bad player, regardless. That is true. However even the actions of another player are bound by the rules of the game that govern that action. A PVP fight can be broken down into a similar rock-paper-scissor match just like a PVE fight. It requires more knowledge and foresight on the individual to plan that far ahead in a fight, especially one where there's multiple people doing different actions, but it's still dependant on numbers.

[Lowkey]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από ReVoke:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Lowkey:

How in the world is thread still alive? A thread that serves no pupose.

A game that is getting close to release and a thread pops ups asking "Why cant AA be a different game" Should be be treated with a dismissive attitude and crass remarks.

Instead we have few people desperately trying to agrue their your own personal preferance in MMOs and termanology?

I guess its true that the Internet is for masterbation of the non-sexual variety as well

And your response differs from this, how?

Its an slim effort that you two will take a deep breath and step away from they keyboard. I also enjoy touching myself in groups.