[Spoilers] Voices in Chapter 4: The Stairs

[SirNicolas]

So, I discovered something in the 4th chapter, there are at least 2 places where you can hear a strange female voice.

Here's a plan of the map (not really beautiful but It should be enough to understand) http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2015/40/1443916099-chapter4.png

If you run straight to the red dot, you'll hear a female voice speaking (Since English is not my first language, I can't really understand what she says, hoppe someone will be able to write it here)

The blue dot seems to play a loop of a strange female voice "singing".

I don't know if the two other corner also play sounds, I tried a few times but don't hear anything. I don't know if it's really important, but I thought it could seems useful to someone.

[Mikel S]

parts of this game had me thinking it was some warped proposal.

[Cloud]

Uh what?

[LowTone]

Publicado originalmente por Vernerl:

EDIT2: At the end of the tower he says that he put solutions between games, which unless you consider the 9. theory, we haven't seen of at all.

We have seen the solutions between games in the code in the tower and the "devil tower star" note with its tarot relation.

Publicado originalmente por Vernerl:

10. I JUST REALISED SOMETHING, and i think it's important (obviously) It's something that neither me nor the Let's Player I'm watching noticed when playing the game, because you're occupied with the gun, in the stage when you shoot it up, can someone look into this too?

What did you realise? I'm not sure what you're saying here - are you just asking for someone to look at this section a little closer, just in case? If that's the case then I think the entire game lends itself to closer inspection.

[Knave]

Publicado originalmente por BNK!:

Do you guys realize that you're playing the part of Davey right now? I believe Coda's viewpoint was that a piece of art doesn't have to exist for anyone but the artist themself. I think the point is that The beginner's guide exists for reasons that only the creator will ever know and the point isn't to pour over all of these little details and figure something out or try to gain something from telling others about what we've found, but to explore the things inside of ourselves and create meaning by finding what drives us creatively and making something for ourselves. DON'T BE A DAVEY! BE A CODA! MAKE SOMETHING!!!

Coda makes things, sure, but he makes them for... himself? Certainly he seems to resist the idea of the general public playing them, he's reluctant to even let Davey play them. Davey kind of has a point in Descent - does the game have any meaning if no-one plays it? It's not like Davey has never created anything - presumably the fictional Davey that narrates the game is, in the fictional world of the game, the same one who wrote The Stanley Parable.

In terms of taking away a lesson about design philosophy, I believe the true moral is in synthesis of the viewpoints. Yes, a game is kind of pointless if it's so obtuse or torturous that nobody finishes playing it. However, there does sometimes come a point where you're sacrificing your vision for that playability. It's pointless trying to maintain that your creations have no meaning, because people will look for them anyway, and they'll find them - because you can't create art that has no meaning, even if you don't intend to put any meaning there yourself. You shouldn't be creating art just to receive validation from others, but if you don't share your art with anyone, what's the point of it?

[Cloud]

Publicado originalmente por LowTone:

Publicado originalmente por Vernerl:

EDIT2: At the end of the tower he says that he put solutions between games, which unless you consider the 9. theory, we haven't seen of at all.

We have seen the solutions between games in the code in the tower and the "devil tower star" note with its tarot relation.

Publicado originalmente por Vernerl:

10. I JUST REALISED SOMETHING, and i think it's important (obviously) It's something that neither me nor the Let's Player I'm watching noticed when playing the game, because you're occupied with the gun, in the stage when you shoot it up, can someone look into this too?

What did you realise? I'm not sure what you're saying here - are you just asking for someone to look at this section a little closer, just in case? If that's the case then I think the entire game lends itself to closer inspection.

1. Devil Tower Star is the tarot card 15 16 and 17 thought...

2. I'm saying i wanna know what the awnser is, because i have never seen it.

[Taka]

Since the beginning of this thread its focus has kind of shifted and that's fine but there is something that I want to say about the topic of the OP that I'm surprised no one else has mentioned yet:

The little bit of text at the beginning of chapter 4, essentially its "title" is "Nonsense in nearly every direction" and it just so happened to be the chapter where if you walk all the way in one direction you will find something seemingly nonsensical.
This implies that the little bits of text at the beginnings of chapters do have meaning. (Such as the already mentioned "Pornstars die too" for example)

[mnemonic]

About the tarot cards, here are the guideilines on how to interpret the tarot cards:

15 - The Devil
The Devil is not as frightening a card to interpret as the depiction on most cards indicates. It is a card about bondage but often this bondage is metaphoric and internal. With this card you are called to look beyond superficial appearances and to go deeper into the truth and meaning of a situation. You also are asked to remember that when you're feeling restrained you nearly always hold the keys to your own freedom. Don't give up hope!

16 - The Tower
The Tower is a card about change. Just as with the Devil and Death, the Tower is not as frightening or as ominous as the pictorial representation in most decks. Trying to hold too tightly to the status quo can be disastrous now. Roll with the changes.

17 - The Star
When the Star appears, you are likely to find yourself feeling rather inspired. You will be feeling more hopeful about the future, and more confident that your needs - whether these are emotional or financial needs or both - will be met. This is also a very spiritual card. You may find yourself for a time feeling at one with all of creation. Savor it.

Source: http://www.psychic-revelation.com/reference/q_t/tarot/tarot_cards/major_arcana.html

Also noteworthy: Every chapter in the game seems to - contentwise - correspond to the number of its tarot card. Coincidence? Quite possibly. But let's go on..

At the end of the game, we hear a song that is immediately overlayed with its own credit. At the time I thought "If there was a deeper meaning to the song, displaying the credit of it at this time would immediately make me pay less attention to interpreting it." As such, I listened closely. Didn't understand most of the lyrics but it says to "turn back", a theme that is referenced quite a few times over the course of the game. Which got me thinking, especially since I knew that every tarot card has a second meaning when it is... reversed.

So, here are, for your convenience, the meanings of the 15, 16 and 17 tarot cards when they appear reversed:

15 - The Devil Reversed
Especially reversed, the Devil is not as frightening a card to interpret as the depiction on most cards might seem to indicate. When reversed, the card reminds us that any situation that may seem to be trapping us is an illusion; we always have options, help is always available.

16 - The Tower Reversed
Whether reversed or upright, the Tower is a card about change. Just as with the cards “the Devil,” and “Death,” the Tower is not nearly as frightening or ominous as one might think from the depiction on the card in most decks. This is a time to roll with the changes. Holding on to tightly to things or people could well create serious difficulties for you and for your loved ones.

17 - The Star Reversed
When the Star reversed appears, you are likely to find yourself feeling rather inspired. In many ways this card indicates the calm after the storm, whether upright or reversed. In reversal, you should still be feeling more hopeful about the future, and more confident that your needs - whether these are emotional or financial needs or both - will be met. You will also find that you have good reason to feel optimistic and that your prospects are bright.

Make of this what you want. We don't know for sure what Davey means by all of this, but the coincidences keep piling up, don't they?

As an added bonus, here are the normal and reversed meanings of card 18, the card that would have been the meaning of chapter 18 if it existed:

18 - The Moon
The Moon indicates that things may seem somewhat confusing to you now. You may find it hard to understand where you are coming from, much less what others are thinking and feeling! You need to try to sit with the uncertainty, don't try to force things or people to do things before they are ready. This card is the "Pisces" of the tarot deck.

18 - The Moon Reversed
Especially in reverse, The Moon indicates that things may seem somewhat confusing to you now and/or to those close to you. It’s important to “sit” with the uncertainty, don’t try to force things or people to do things before they are ready. This card is the “Pisces” of the tarot deck.



So maybe the 151617 puzzle was not solvable. Maybe it was, if you just had listened... We're probably all confused. Let it sink in and inspire. :)

Thanks for reading, everyone.

[Kajjy]

Hey, I just wanted to say that if you read this artical by Davey about his depression after the release of the Stanely Parable, the points of this game become clear or at least less murky. http://www.galactic-cafe.com/

[SirNicolas]

Publicado originalmente por Taka:

Since the beginning of this thread its focus has kind of shifted and that's fine but there is something that I want to say about the topic of the OP that I'm surprised no one else has mentioned yet:

The little bit of text at the beginning of chapter 4, essentially its "title" is "Nonsense in nearly every direction" and it just so happened to be the chapter where if you walk all the way in one direction you will find something seemingly nonsensical.
This implies that the little bits of text at the beginnings of chapters do have meaning. (Such as the already mentioned "Pornstars die too")

Yeah, I realised that yesterday too, but I was too focused on my studies to post about it... You're right, after thinking about it, I started wondering if there was really a signification behind these sounds but... They are most likely only here to be weird, as the expanding prison, "it's weird to be weird"

[LowTone]

Publicado originalmente por mnemonic:

As an added bonus, here are the normal and reversed meanings of card 18, the card that would have been the meaning of chapter 18 if it existed:

Publicado originalmente por mnemonic:

So maybe the 151617 puzzle was not solvable. Maybe it was, if you just had listened... We're probably all confused. Let it sink in and inspire. :)

Thanks for the card meanings, especially the reversed ones.

Don't forget that the code 151618 also works in the tower, so 18 is still in there even without a chapter.

Also the other clue to solve the puzzle was the gaps in between making games. 5, 6 and 7 with each 1 being a game.

[North]

Publicado originalmente por Taka:

Since the beginning of this thread its focus has kind of shifted and that's fine but there is something that I want to say about the topic of the OP that I'm surprised no one else has mentioned yet:

The little bit of text at the beginning of chapter 4, essentially its "title" is "Nonsense in nearly every direction" and it just so happened to be the chapter where if you walk all the way in one direction you will find something seemingly nonsensical.
This implies that the little bits of text at the beginnings of chapters do have meaning. (Such as the already mentioned "Pornstars die too")

Maybe it's equating Coda's "nonsense" ideas too--that's possible. I'll check more.

[MinimalistPig]

Publicado originalmente por LowTone:

Publicado originalmente por mnemonic:

As an added bonus, here are the normal and reversed meanings of card 18, the card that would have been the meaning of chapter 18 if it existed:

Publicado originalmente por mnemonic:

So maybe the 151617 puzzle was not solvable. Maybe it was, if you just had listened... We're probably all confused. Let it sink in and inspire. :)

Thanks for the card meanings, especially the reversed ones.

Don't forget that the code 151618 also works in the tower, so 18 is still in there even without a chapter.

Also the other clue to solve the puzzle was the gaps in between making games. 5, 6 and 7 with each 1 being a game.

I'm sorry to point this out but the 151618 code does NOT work. It is not a valid code. The moment the numbers are set to 151617, no matter what it is changed to, the lever will be unlocked. Here's an example:

Situation 1:
- Code is at 000000
- Lever is locked
- Change code to 151617
- Lever is now unlocked (do not use lever yet)
- Change code to 151618
- Lever is still unlocked (use lever now)
- This makes it seem like it is a valid code but it is not

Situation 2:
- Code is at 000000
- Lever is locked
- Change code to 000018
- Then change code to 151618
- Lever is LOCKED
- Change code to 151617
- Lever is now unlocked

What this is showing that the moment the keypad reaches the code 151617, the lever will be unlocked. If you do the 18 first, then the 1516 part, the 151618 code will not work.

Sorry guys but your interpretations of the 18 are invalid :P

[LowTone]

Publicado originalmente por MinimalistPig:

...
What this is showing that the moment the keypad reaches the code 151617, the lever will be unlocked. If you do the 18 first, then the 1516 part, the 151618 code will not work.

Sorry guys but your interpretations of the 18 are invalid :P

Well done for testing this rather than just accepting it.
Less to think about now, phew!

[Knave]

Interesting that it works that way. I don't want to immediately read something into it, since there's every chance it's an entirely incidental mechanical detail, but the point is it doesn't work how you'd expect (i.e. the lever is unlocked only when a valid code is displayed). Maybe it's easy to code this way, I dunno. Maybe in-story, it's a mercy feature - you can accidentally enter 151617, then change it, then progress forward, without ever knowing you got it right accidentally and didn't check. Either way it seems like both Coda in-story and Wreden in reality would be conscious of the fact it's expected to work like a combination lock in real life.

I dunno. It's worth thinking about and taking into account from perhaps a design philosophy point of view, but probably there's no story significance to this one.

[Cloud]

Guys, i checked what happened if you go back through the train, nothing happens. :-( It's exactly what you think. I just thought something would because of the The Stars card.