Why game getting hate?

[Anon GM.]

This is a good game, a fun game. Many gameplay elements are satysfying, you can cistimize your run, a lot of weapons. new enemy types, abilites, and new metal music. Sure it is different; and after playing 2016 and eternal I was also expecting more of the same but I am not dissapointed in the game. It delivered a doom experience.

[Maxim]

Because nothing is allowed to be different or unique anymore these days, this is a great new doom game!

[mistahbungle]

👍 OP

[N00B]

It does have flaws. People can love the game and dislike parts of it. Some of these flaws more blatant than others. I myself am having a blast but can see a lot of issues hindering the game's potential.

[Letterit]

There's no hate, game hated at unfair levels are for example Starfield or DAV. Apart perhaps the price, there's nothing worth any hate in this new Doom. For the price, either play on gamepass (but probably not the extension) or delay and wait for sales.

[Letterit]

Originally posted by N00B:

It does have flaws. People can love the game and dislike parts of it. Some of these flaws more blatant than others. I myself am having a blast but can see a lot of issues hindering the game's potential.

The only flaws I quoted are ugly, awful tourism value, non smart design giving a repetitive feeling of chaining arena combats but with some digging it's more a feeling than real repetition. And I'm not sure but I feel that remove any dodge option wasn't a smart design.

What are those flaws?

Complain of shield abuse is player fault, stop use that much the shield.
Complain it is too slow is player fault, there's an option to increase speed.
Complain it's not a pure shooter is player fault, next time investigate better games you buy, there's a shield put forward in com this is a clear hint it's no classic shooter.
Complain it's too wide area is player fault, learn rush better, or learn find more secrets.
What else?

EDIT:
Forgot one big flaw, missing an option to play a gorgeous amazon top model with flew cloths and mirrors everywhere in any areas.

[Supa]

Originally posted by Letterit:

What are those flaws?

Well the whole shield being overpowered part and no, telling people to just not use it is not going to change the fact that it's flawed in design and numbers. A well designed game would not require such statements to be made in defense of balance.

Same goes with weapons. The game doesn't incentivize you to use different weapons. Just use one. And that one is Impaler if you want to kill things the fastest. And holding W doesn't make areas any more compact. Doesn't help that many levels have walking sections with doors and radio chatter.

[N00B]

Originally posted by Supa:

The shield is not overpowered if you're playing the game on the difficulty I am.
A single hit from even a fodder demon will destroy it in one hit. The shield works best for the parry, shield throw and shield bash, but ironically its atrocious as an actual shield. This wouldn't be an issue if the sprint wasn't just a straight downgrade from the run in Doom 1 and 2, limiting you to only sprinting forward, forcing you to look away from the enemy and their attacks.

Also, the game doesn't need to tell you what guns are good at what if you actually use them yourself.
The Skullcrusher is good against large enemies like Mancubi and Pinkies since their large hitboxes can catch their full spread.
The SSG and Chainshot are crucial for armored enemies.
The needlers and the chainshot are great against "Stand and fight" enemies such as the giant tentacles, Cyberdemons and Barons of Hell as they're powered up by parrying Hell Surge attacks.
If you use the weapons, you figure out what they can do without the game having to tell you , which is my personal biggest gripe with Eternal.

[Berserk Slayer]

Originally posted by Supa:

Originally posted by Letterit:

What are those flaws?

Well the whole shield being overpowered part and no, telling people to just not use it is not going to change the fact that it's flawed in design and numbers. A well designed game would not require such statements to be made in defense of balance.

Same goes with weapons. The game doesn't incentivize you to use different weapons. Just use one. And that one is Impaler if you want to kill things the fastest. And holding W doesn't make areas any more compact. Doesn't help that many levels have walking sections with doors and radio chatter.

The game not incentivizing you to use different weapons is not quite true, it has variety, upgrades, different utility on different mods and so on. The key here is it just doesn't stop you concentrating on particular weapons because you are good with them, or just plain enjoy them, or want particular damage/utility that is optimal for YOUR gameplay style.

It incentivizes and rewards trying gun choices, but it doesn't restrict them with a heavy hand. Most contrived demands for problem-solving are answered with shield/melee, not gun choice.

[Letterit]

Originally posted by Supa:

Originally posted by Letterit:

What are those flaws?

Well the whole shield being overpowered part and no, telling people to just not use it is not going to change the fact that it's flawed in design and numbers. A well designed game would not require such statements to be made in defense of balance.

Same goes with weapons. The game doesn't incentivize you to use different weapons. Just use one. And that one is Impaler if you want to kill things the fastest. And holding W doesn't make areas any more compact. Doesn't help that many levels have walking sections with doors and radio chatter.

Still it's only your choices, use something boring you despite you could not. Don't play any single RpG because all have OP holes.

But ok it's your faults but for you it's game fault and you reject your responsibility involvement, that's your right.

Then there's the complain that places a too big to run though, lol, let say that the real complain about this is how ugly is the game and the very low tourism value.

[N00B]

Originally posted by Letterit:

What are those flaws?

-150% game speed feels like it should have been the default speed. Attacks in Dark Ages are just as fast on 150% speed as their equivalents were in 2016 and Eternal.

-The sprint only makes you as fast as you already were in 2016. While Doom 1 and 2 did have a "run", that one was omni-directional, meaning that you could run backwards and sideways as well, while Dark Ages' sprint only goes forward. This clashes heavy with the enemy design as you need to look away from the enemy and their attacks to avoid them. That, or you turn down projectile speed, which means that the sprint no longer has a proper function in gameplay. This makes enemies like the Vagary or Kamodo extremely annoying as the latter especially constantly fires projectiles and scatters them around the arena, which you can't see while evading them due to sprint.

-The shield itself has finite health which doesn't scale with the damage on higher difficulties. Chaingunners, Arachnatrons and Cyberdemons are the main issue here as their machine gun fire can not be dodged and needs to be blocked, but will very quickly break the shield.

-Parried melee attacks tend to send you flying back, which often results in you getting stuck on the more "modern" and detailed map design, leaving you unable to move until you slide back to the ground.

-The Turret, Atlan and Serrat sections, while really fun, are also very surface level and short. The Serrat gameplay in particular feels very gimmicky as most of the combat is in the form of Assault Mode mini games.

[Letterit]

Originally posted by N00B:

Originally posted by Letterit:

What are those flaws?

-150% game speed feels like it should have been the default speed. Attacks in Dark Ages are just as fast on 150% speed as their equivalents were in 2016 and Eternal.

-The sprint only makes you as fast as you already were in 2016. While Doom 1 and 2 did have a "run", that one was omni-directional, meaning that you could run backwards and sideways as well, while Dark Ages' sprint only goes forward. This clashes heavy with the enemy design as you need to look away from the enemy and their attacks to avoid them. That, or you turn down projectile speed, which means that the sprint no longer has a proper function in gameplay. This makes enemies like the Vagary or Kamodo extremely annoying as the latter especially constantly fires projectiles and scatters them around the arena, which you can't see while evading them due to sprint.

-The shield itself has finite health which doesn't scale with the damage on higher difficulties. Chaingunners, Arachnatrons and Cyberdemons are the main issue here as their machine gun fire can not be dodged and needs to be blocked, but will very quickly break the shield.

-Parried melee attacks tend to send you flying back, which often results in you getting stuck on the more "modern" and detailed map design, leaving you unable to move until you slide back to the ground.

-The Turret, Atlan and Serrat sections, while really fun, are also very surface level and short. The Serrat gameplay in particular feels very gimmicky as most of the combat is in the form of Assault Mode mini games.

Point 1 is a flaw only with players in fault.

Point 2 is woo I didn't noticed, and I heavily doubt it with rush key keep pressed. But if you are right and rush is forward only then I agree it's a clear questionable design.

Point 3 is related to highest difficulties and complain it's too difficult. Perhaps you have a point but it's not obvious.

Point 4, what parry melee? For parrying melee rush I didn't noticed the problem.

Point 5, is the false flaw complain that a player believe the game could have been better with this change or that change.

Moreover that's a very short list and no blatant huge flaw in it, I think my (short) list cover much big points, ugly, bad tourism, no dodge, no option for gorgeous amazon top model with few cloths and mirrors everywhere and if enemies break a mirror the top model enters in rage because it's one less mirror to admire herself.

[Supa]

Originally posted by Letterit:

Originally posted by Supa:

Well the whole shield being overpowered part and no, telling people to just not use it is not going to change the fact that it's flawed in design and numbers. A well designed game would not require such statements to be made in defense of balance.

Same goes with weapons. The game doesn't incentivize you to use different weapons. Just use one. And that one is Impaler if you want to kill things the fastest. And holding W doesn't make areas any more compact. Doesn't help that many levels have walking sections with doors and radio chatter.

Still it's only your choices, use something boring you despite you could not. Don't play any single RpG because all have OP holes.

But ok it's your faults but for you it's game fault and you reject your responsibility involvement, that's your right.

Then there's the complain that places a too big to run though, lol, let say that the real complain about this is how ugly is the game and the very low tourism value.

The problem here is that it is also their choice to play a game that handles those things better. :/

[Letterit]

Originally posted by Supa:

Originally posted by Letterit:

Still it's only your choices, use something boring you despite you could not. Don't play any single RpG because all have OP holes.

But ok it's your faults but for you it's game fault and you reject your responsibility involvement, that's your right.

Then there's the complain that places a too big to run though, lol, let say that the real complain about this is how ugly is the game and the very low tourism value.

The problem here is that it is also their choice to play a game that handles those things better. :/

What games? Previous new Dooms had no option to go as fast than DDA with 200% speed. All action shooters aren't as fast not even serious sam, only a few indies inspired by original Doom. previous new Dooms hadn't better motive to use all weapons, and no Doom had it since origin.

Moreover there's no game with DDA gameplay as it's rather new design on various aspects so they can't be better, firstly different and then perhaps better on some points.

Let be clear I don't prone new Dooms shooting gameplay, don't feel them bad, but don't like.

[Supa]

Originally posted by Letterit:

What games? Previous new Dooms had no option to go as fast than DDA with 200% speed. All action shooters aren't as fast not even serious sam, only a few indies inspired by original Doom. previous new Dooms hadn't better motive to use all weapons, and no Doom had it since origin.

Having more speed isn't going to fix the aforementioned issues. Speed also doesn't really do much when you're mostly just driving a straight road. It isn't just the raw kilometers per hour but what is happening in that timespan. It is like drag race vs rally.

Originally posted by Letterit:

Moreover there's no game with DDA gameplay as it's rather new design on various aspects so they can't be better, firstly different and then perhaps better on some points.

There are. It's just borrowing elements from different games that I think already executed them better. Even in Doom 1 and 2 the "bullet hell" works better and Ultrakill does parrying better than just green projectiles and flashes.

[Letterit]

There's no bullet hell in any new Doom nor Quake. If you are starting compare with original, the differences are huge, no new Doom is even half close to reproduce original gameplay, that's not the arguing, it's very very old games, and even first quake failed reproduce or make en enhanced original Doom gameplay, just different with few similarities and with (awful ugly) 3D.

I didn't played Ultrakill, I don't like parrying and prefer dodging more dynamic. But ok if you start summon cheap indie games I get indies is on lead for innovation since about 2 decades, nothing new and nothing related to DDA.

I didn't get your comment on speed. Faster is faster and not matter the direction or the turns.