The melee system sux donkey balls

[Terepin]

The game expects from you, outright tells you to stand your ground and facetank all attacks. But the problem with this approach is that you are ill equipped to handle it. They basically took the blood punch from Eternal, removed dahs and double jump, gave you the ability to directly parry only few specific attacks, directly block few hits before your shield goes on cooldown, during which you are completely exposed, then during melee attacks you are locked in, slowed down and still completely exposed, while they barely stagger heavy enemies, which means that during the melee attack they can hit you back and because you are locked in and thus you cannot parry the attack, they will facetank you, and most of the times the special attacks triggered by perfect parry don't even activate against heavy enemies, and shield throw is not only blocked by any enemy projectile, but outright bounces off from heavy enemies.

What the f*ck.

And that's not even mentioning that the armor/health drops you get from parries are pathetic. 10 armor from a single flair hit? How the hell is that suppose to help me? A single common will remove it just by sneezing at me.

tl;dr Melee is weak, leaves me exposed, works only against specific attacks at specific angles with very specific timing, its rewards are not worth getting and most of the time don't even work against heavy enemies.

I'm more successful when I play it just any other Doom game. And that's a bad thing.

[decizion]

Skill issue.

[genericwhitemale]

could be worse, could be eternals melee

[Berserk Slayer]

I missed the part where the game tells you to stand still and be attacked on purpose during FPS combat, and am treating "stand and fight" as a theme while mostly avoiding being hit if I can, strafing and moving constantly, closing the distance for a kill if needed vs big hitters, and using my shield as appropriate. Due to this oversight I can recommend not intentionally standing still and being hit.

[DOOM SLAYER]

Originally posted by Terepin:

The game expects from you, outright tells you to stand your ground and facetank all attacks. But the problem with this approach is that you are ill equipped to handle it. They basically took the blood punch from Eternal, removed dahs and double jump, gave you the ability to directly parry only few specific attacks, directly block few hits before your shield goes on cooldown, during which you are completely exposed, then during melee attacks you are locked in, slowed down and still completely exposed, while they barely stagger heavy enemies, which means that during the melee attack they can hit you back and because you are locked in and thus you cannot parry the attack, they will facetank you, and most of the times the special attacks triggered by perfect parry don't even activate against heavy enemies, and shield throw is not only blocked by any enemy projectile, but outright bounces off from heavy enemies.

What the f*ck.

And that's not even mentioning that the armor/health drops you get from parries are pathetic. 10 armor from a single flair hit? How the hell is that suppose to help me? A single common will remove it just by sneezing at me.

tl;dr Melee is weak, leaves me exposed, works only against specific attacks at specific angles with very specific timing, its rewards are not worth getting and most of the time don't even work against heavy enemies.

I'm more successful when I play it just any other Doom game. And that's a bad thing.

parrying and close combat+shield charge+shield saw boomerang glory strike that is easy combo attack bro you have a skill issue??? if you have a problem you is the problem

[Berserk Slayer]

Joking aside, I literally couldn't habitually facetank fire on purpose in a Doom game if I wanted to and didn't have to. Pretty sure WASD muscle memory/strafe reflex would not allow unnecessary standing still after a leisurely 300ms or so. So maybe this is an easy non-issue for those of us who played FPS for 30+ year series and just went "stand and fight, yeah, right"

@OP: Don't do that. Strafe, move.

[Neptune PurpleHeart]

>melee is weak
charge + 1/2 punches usually falters just about anything that isn't a mancubus or higher, afaik the gauntlet is actually the best melee when upgraded, i don't even touch the flail anymore unless i know there's a big group of fodders i can cleave and even then might as well just throw the shield

[Omega]

The gameplay pacing i've seen so far reminds me of mobile games. Am i wrong? Like they dumbed it down compared to Doom 2016

[Terepin]

Originally posted by Neptune PurpleHeart:

>melee is weak
charge + 1/2 punches usually falters just about anything that isn't a mancubus or higher, afaik the gauntlet is actually the best melee when upgraded, i don't even touch the flail anymore unless i know there's a big group of fodders i can cleave and even then might as well just throw the shield

Throwing shield has sever limitations. It only works against up to medium enemies and even then it can be interrupted by any projectile. And against stronger enemies it outright doesn't work.

[Terepin]

Originally posted by Omega:

The gameplay pacing i've seen so far reminds me of mobile games. Am i wrong? Like they dumbed it down compared to Doom 2016

It's not the pacing that's the problem, it's the inconsistency of attacks.

[Neptune PurpleHeart]

Originally posted by Terepin:

Originally posted by Neptune PurpleHeart:

>melee is weak
charge + 1/2 punches usually falters just about anything that isn't a mancubus or higher, afaik the gauntlet is actually the best melee when upgraded, i don't even touch the flail anymore unless i know there's a big group of fodders i can cleave and even then might as well just throw the shield

Throwing shield has sever limitations. It only works against up to medium enemies and even then it can be interrupted by any projectile. And against stronger enemies it outright doesn't work.

yea i keep forgetting about that and keep losing runs to leaders because of it lmao

[Terepin]

Originally posted by Berserk Slayer:

Joking aside, I literally couldn't habitually facetank fire on purpose in a Doom game if I wanted to and didn't have to. Pretty sure WASD muscle memory/strafe reflex would not allow unnecessary standing still after a leisurely 300ms or so. So maybe this is an easy non-issue for those of us who played FPS for 30+ year series and just went "stand and fight, yeah, right"

@OP: Don't do that. Strafe, move.

Many times even running didn't help me. It's very difficult to run around searching for health/shield while enemies are trying to surround and blocking/parrying all the attacks. Maybe I suck at multitasking, I dunno, but I never had problem with being surrounded in Eternal because in there you had double jump, dash and blood punch to free yourself.

[Terepin]

Originally posted by Neptune PurpleHeart:

Originally posted by Terepin:

Throwing shield has sever limitations. It only works against up to medium enemies and even then it can be interrupted by any projectile. And against stronger enemies it outright doesn't work.

yea i keep forgetting about that and keep losing runs to leaders because of it lmao

There you go. The foundation of the melee system isn't bad, but its implementation is. The game doesn't visually communicate with you that the shield won't lodge into the enemy, so you're not only wasting your time trying to do it, but you are also exposing yourself to every demon around you. Call my n00b if you want, but I played hundreds of hours in Shadow Warrior 2 and I never had problem with meleeing enemies.

[DOOM SLAYER]

Originally posted by Terepin:

Originally posted by Neptune PurpleHeart:

yea i keep forgetting about that and keep losing runs to leaders because of it lmao

There you go. The foundation of the melee system isn't bad, but its implementation is. The game doesn't visually communicate with you that the shield won't lodge into the enemy, so you're not only wasting your time trying to do it, but you are also exposing yourself to every demon around you. Call my n00b if you want, but I played hundreds of hours in Shadow Warrior 2 and I never had problem with meleeing enemies.

shadow warrior2 is not same TDA

[Terepin]

Originally posted by DOOM SLAYER:

Originally posted by Terepin:

There you go. The foundation of the melee system isn't bad, but its implementation is. The game doesn't visually communicate with you that the shield won't lodge into the enemy, so you're not only wasting your time trying to do it, but you are also exposing yourself to every demon around you. Call my n00b if you want, but I played hundreds of hours in Shadow Warrior 2 and I never had problem with meleeing enemies.

shadow warrior2 is not same TDA

I realize that, but my point is that it melee didn't feel like a punishment and you could still move while meleeing.

[Himcules]

Originally posted by Terepin:

Originally posted by DOOM SLAYER:

shadow warrior2 is not same TDA

I realize that, but my point is that it melee didn't feel like a punishment and you could still move while meleeing.

I can see how you'd think it's inconsistent, especially with how quickly encounters can escalate and kill you.

I'd argue the rules of combat are incredibly consistent.
You can insta-kill fodder enemies with the shield. Zombies and soldiers.
Medium demons like the whiplash, kell knight and larger imps, and mancubus can be stunned with the shield throw. Some of them throw big walls that block ALL projectiles, not just the shield.
Heavy demons cannot be stunned with the shield. However, when you parry all of their attacks, they stagger, indicated by the large yellow/orange circle. That's a great time to use melee, shield bash, etc.

The melee is designed to regenerate resources, and deal minor/moderate damage (aside from the mace of course). If you try to beat up on a demon while it's attacking, you're going to get your face stomped. If you stagger them, wail away, regenerate your ammo and armor, then go back to shooting. I used the dreadmace exclusively once I got it, because I could basically kill heavy demons in a single cycle with it.

Maybe you think it sucks because you are using it as a primary form of combat, rather than weaving it in between gunplay? I can see how you come to that conclusion though