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That was frustrating for me, personally, to be chained to the mediocre performance of a controller -- but it was literally the only game in town. Eventually the few of us with laptops got some SOF2 LAN going in the rec room, but that was nothing like half a floor of Marines rocking Red vs. Blue.
I wasn't on board for D16's marketing, so I'll take your word on all that demo history...
I have seen the way this crew strives to spin facts, though, so I'll take it with a grain of salt.
If D:DA is going to deliver a battlefield-style DM experience of that type, it might be very fun.
The success of that would rest wholly on the fundamentals of the game's mechanics as a shooter, though -- which its predecessor completely abandoned for a tempo game.
D:E lacks symmetrical multiplayer for this reason, and it was a huge misstep.
Still, it's a stretch to see the dragon riding -- and there's absolutely no excuse for there to be any focus on voltron mechs in a DOOM game, except the career vanity of Hugo Martin as design lead.
A DOOM battlefield with monster riding would be some kind of logical application, but why not harnessed hellspawn (a bridled Cacodemon, yeah?), instead of tepid ♥♥♥♥ like a dragon??
...DOOM already has an identity, and they are stretching it in ways it does not need to be pulled.
That's the majority of the complaints people seem to have when it comes to comparing D16 and D:E's world-building. The first was faithful, the sequel distinctly devolved with its DLC -- and then morphed into something that DOOM never was.
Hugo Martin is a mecha nerd, he loves Evil Dead 2 and Army of Darkness, he loves Predator so naturally you can see it reflected in his games, just like how you can see media the original creators liked reflected in their games. Would DE be a better game if Hugo was replaced by somebody whose influences were the same as the original id guys’? Maybe. Would DE be better if the Lead Designer wasn’t passionate about the project and was just trying to copy older games? I don’t think so.
Also, while riding a dragon is corny, riding a Cacodemon would be downright comical. There’s a ton of “Doomguy riding Cacodemon” fan art you can find online and it’s all very cute.
That's incorrect. Or rather indeed, Doom 2016 didn't have the same level of marketing because Doom 2016 had more trailers, more presentation across more events, a beta and even a demo a month after release. Eternal didn't have more marketing, it was just louder because people remembered Doom was a thing.
EDIT : Unless your point was to say Eternal wasn't as successful than 2016 because it didn't have much marketing. In that case... well, it'd probably still be incorrect but at least logical
Like Kevin Cloud? Yeah, very likely.
D16's massive success was due to the development phases under years on his watch, after all. He was also man enough to own up to his faults on the project, in the end.
In what framework does being passionate about mechs give Martin creative license to shoehorn his own personal (and one-note professional) interests into this franchise?
The reality is that there isn't one.
There's no logic to these attempts at justification, just circular reasoning.
We've all seen this spin before, for years, on the D:E forums. It has never worked.
And what better way than to own it and make it something not lame?
Are we pretending that an added gag about "your pet rabbit Daisy" in the latter episodes wasn't always "cute" & lame, yet people have embraced it and DOOM owns it, now.
Riding a Caco with a jerry-rigged cyber implant in its brainstem; or even just your fisting a headhole in that putrid pumpkin?
Riding a bridled Pain Elemental -- smashing down enemies with his shackled fists, while blasting them with Lost Souls?
Both sound way cooler, more DOOM-like, and more appropriate for the brand than "a dragon" or a "dog spirit familiar".
...All I see are excuses being lobbied about, post-slaughter, to defend bad calls.
There's a poser mindset to NuDoom that was never part of the trailblazing original series -- and talents of genuine quality would know how to steer clear of those creative pitfalls.
We've all mentioned 'Heretic' and how much this entry looks/feels like a half-assed attempt to pose as "Hexen'.
They were too scared to go the full monty on an amalgamated id verse' with D:E -- solidifying the marriage we've seen since Q3A -- but still ripped off ALL those enemies for its new cadre. Now they're using the same setting, too? It's a cop-out, just like D:E's slap-dash experimentation of throwing mechanics at a wall.
DOOM deserves better than excuses.
And at this point his working on the third game in the franchise, so the franchise is as much his as it is Tom Hall’s, John Romero’s, Adrian and John Carmack’s (I know they aren’t related). Remember what you said to me about Fallout? Just as Fallouts evolved from boring 2D clicker games for nerds into beautiful 3D looter shooters, so Doom evolved from shooting cardboard cutouts into epic and brutal QTE simulators. The old games are irrelevant.
& also to the success of eternal.
A spin that you continue to parrot with a false narrative despite being proven wrong time & time again. Personally i don't see what there is to gain apart from going round in circles. Maybe stop?
There's nothing wrong with mechs in DOOM as long as it's fun, which it will be in D:DA by the looks of it.
The setting takes place on argent d'nur after doom 64 & after he gets his powers during the unholy crusade, so naturally the setting fits the bill just fine, & even then so what they use inspiration from hexen? nothing wrong with that at all.
DOOM forums also deserve better than parroting toxic delusion.
The group effort of the original DOOM launched deserved celebrity for the team.
Hugo Martin's self-promotional merchandising tours have been a far cry from the days of critical lauds, conventions, and commercial contests based on actual merit.
DOOM is far from "his" -- all he's done is ride coattails & deliver division to the brand & bad lunches for his bigger bosses at Bethesda.
It's time to face that he was a bad hire -- and has made a majority of bad calls.
Marty wasted money and everyone's time mining second-string "talent" from Hollyweird, when he had actual talents in house with decades more experience in the medium and successes under their belts.
I'll just refer to my earlier comment on the poser mentality that's painfully prevalent in the NuDoom scene, and leave it at that.
Instead of trying to bait why not contribute something of actual substance? Untill then feel free to go onto my profile & prove yourself wrong.
It's sad, because you come so close with these sorts of comments and then just torpedo your own narrative with this nonsense pretext about "poser mindset" like that's not exactly what you're doing here - and in most of the content you've posted.
But let me put my gloves back on and say I actually strongly agree with some of the skepticism you and others are expressing over the content in the DA trailer. We've seen small parts of two segments that incorporate what look like non-core mini-games: "Dragon-Riding Cart racing" and "enter the mech and press I-win buttons." To my knowledge - we've never seen anything like this in the franchise - even in NuDoom.
I can't figure out how these two things will fit into the game mechanically. Will Dragon riding teach you how to do something else on foot? Will the mech emphasize other skills you'll use when you're fighting the horde?
If the answer is "no" to questions like these then I assume they're fluff - mini-games that rip you out of the main gameplay loop to add spectacle and "flavor" - nothing more. I'm absolutely against their inclusion if that's the case, or they need to be skippable like a cutscene.
While I loathe discussions on "what is Doom-like," if a demon being alive is point A and it being brutally murdered is point B, any instance where the Slayer isn't drawing the straightest, most direct and brutal line between those two would be a departure from his 30 year legacy. Riding a demon would be thematically inconsistent to his instant destruction of the argent filters in 2016. Using a demon to attack is outright heresy (and yes, I disliked the SSG sequence in Eternal and would have much preferred to retrieve it myself).
The dragon fits way better, because it's not a demon. And maybe it's the same one from TAG2 - which makes it a little cooler.
I'm in the same boat here, i also hate these meaningless rants about "what is Doom-like," or "It's not a doom game!" because it's not exactly like the classic games, it's a purist attitude that only serves to gatekeep potential new & old players from the series just because they think the "brand" needs to be honoured. DOOM never has been & never will be grounded to being just like the classic games, it's allowed to innovate & push the boundries & if not for games like 2016 & eternal, doom as a franchise would be dead as i'm pretty sure doom 4 would have been the nail in the coffin there.
It's fine to dislike certain games within the series, but that's on the player & making threads like this or spreading misinformation in other forums for years is just pathetic & deluded. Don't like one of the DOOM games? then don't play it, simple as that.
Also love the new name lol.