Which is better Battlezone 2 or Battlezone 98?

[Retroburn]

I haven't played this game back in the day so I'm wondering.

That said, I'm going to buy this one soon and Battlezone 2 too if if ever gets a redux version.

[Seqan]

You have just opened the BIGGEST can of worms in BZ history. I'm not even joking. This thread is going to get wildly out of control.

That being said, I'll do my best to give you an objective answer.

Both BZ1 and 2 have their merits. BZ1 is substantially more true to the playstyle that was intended by Activision for Battlezone, while BZ2 has a much stronger RTS element to it that kind of swings the balance back towards games like SC2 and Age of Empires.

Battlezone 1 is played and intended to be played with limits. You are limited right out of the gate by a unit cap of 10 per category. You can only have 1 recycler. The scrap throughout each map is extremely limited and you have to fight for control of it if you want to get an edge.

Meanwhile, BZ 2 is more about getting as much of the infinite resources as you can as quickly as possible, hence my statement of a stronger RTS element. There is infinite bio-metal. The trick is to get control of the places you can collect it as quickly as possible to build up your army as quickly as possible to overwhelm the enemy, and yes, overwhelm. Not as much micro-strategy is necessary because BZ2 does not have the same limitations as BZ1. That being said, there are some other micro-management aspects BZ2 has that BZ1 does not. You can reprogram your constructions facilities to arm your vehicles differently. You can take control of gun towers. Etc.

BZ2 also has a much more powerful game engine that allows it to do things like have morphing ships and teleportation. The graphics are higher as well. Furthermore, and a lot of people like this, BZ2 has integrated co-op options. In other words, you can have 2+ players for one recycler. One person on the team does the base building and unit control, while the rest are "elite troops" for lack of a better description.

In my opinion, BZ1 is the better game for one huge reason. The limitations and slower nature of the game allow me to strategize how I want to. It's not a brute force RTS that you win by gathering the most resources the fastest then overwhelming your opponent with whatever you want. By the time you have 10 offensive units, you can bet your opponent does too. Therefore, you have to plan accordingly. The game has a much higher strategic skill factor than most APM (actions per minute) based RTSes.

Also. The BZ1 single player story is MUCH better, and BZ2 did not build off of it. This slanted my view of BZ2 somewhat from the beginning.

My two cents.

[Novus Ordo Seclorum]

There are 2 kinds of people in this world.

1. Those who think Battlezone 98 is the best.
2. Those who are wrong.

[C@mM!]

I prefer BZ2's gameplay over BZ1, mostly because the AI in BZ2 is half decent, where as I want to neck my team mates in BZ1.

That being said, BZ1 is still a good game, and this remaster makes enjoying it so much easier :)

[Seqan]

Originally posted by Sporkinator:

There are 2 kinds of people in this world.

1. Those who think Battlezone 98 is the best.
2. Those who are wrong.

I rest my case about worms. =P

Originally posted by Camm:

I prefer BZ2's gameplay over BZ1, mostly because the AI in BZ2 is half decent, where as I want to neck my team mates in BZ1.

This. I don't know what you're comparing it to, but you are correct somewhat. The original BZ had a HORRIBLE AI that would run away if you shot them. However, with the old 1.5 version and this release, the AI did get a MAJOR upgrade that made it much less stupid.

That being said. BZ2 does have a more challenging and intelligent AI. Thanks for mentioning.

[Ded10c]

Expect things to get opinionated in here, and real fast. You'll probably hear a lot of arguments that are objectively wrong, like "BZ2's story contradicts BZ1's!" (hint: it doesn't, it just doesn't follow on very smoothly).

I'm a fan of both games - I was introduced to BZ2 first, then BZ1 a year later. Apparently it's rare for people to be able to assess both games in their own right. They both cater to different fantasies, they have different playstyles.

[Coca Cola and Diabetes]

I think there's two kind of Battlezone fans in the world.

1: The ones who worship the glorious Battlezone 98

2. The ones who worship the golorious Battlezone 2

You see that in my opinion, both games have both cons and pros, both are awesome.

So get both. ;)

[Ded10c]

Originally posted by Candell:

-snip-

3. The ones who, like you and I, worship both.

[Troutman561]

I enjoyed BZ2. I bought it the day it came out and played in at a computer woefully underpowered for it for a short time. For a lot of reasons Seqan listed, I like BZ1 better. BZ2's race to the unlimited resources and the "how fast can you build ♥♥♥♥" was fun but required less thinking. I am no intellectual by any means but being limited on BZ1 in units and resources makes you think more and challenges you more. In BZ1 you can also still win if you recovered fewer resources but yet are a better strategist. Recently, I have been really liking the "no barracks" option in BZ1 multiplayer because you really have to think and plan, and you have to protect everything because chances are once something is killed, you won’t get the pilot back. I also enjoy the unit balance better in BZ1, especially since 1.5 made it out.

On another note, the biggest strike for me personally against BZ2 was how the units seemed to "de-evolve". Allow me to explain... You went from mobile, hovering production facilities to tracked and fixed facilities. To me, this seems backwards, like technology didn’t advance. Same with the tracked offensive units and the need to build adjacent to other buildings. To me it seems like the graphics got better but the fictional technology got worse. I know it seems stupid but come on, in the 60's everything hovered, but in the 2000's we get slow, tracked vehicles. I know I know, the information in the game said they were so heavy physics wouldn’t allow them to hover.. But an assault tank of BZ2 definitely didn’t weight more than the recycler of BZ1.. Don’t insult my intelligence programmers! (last sentence said tongue in cheek.. sort of)

[Ded10c]

An assault tank in BZ2 is carrying weapons much more powerful than those that come equipped on any stock vehicle in BZ1 (due to the combat/assault system rather than the types of weapon itself). Who's to say what the recoil would be like if you equipped a Sabre with assault blast?

The fabrication systems changed, too. In BZ1, producers worked by suspending a steel chassis - and most of the workings of the vehicle - and spraying biometal onto it, which solidifies to form the finished vehicle. In BZ2 things aren't built like that, and given the increased costs you could guess that its vehicles probably have much greater amounts of biometal in them, if they're not fabricated from the stuff entirely.

I mean, yeah, it's not great in the context of gameplay or design continuity but it's not without explanation.

[Troutman561]

Well I introduce the heavy tank from TRO on the chinese side.. While slow, it still hovered and had powerful weapons.. I mean, at the end of the day it doesnt matter and we are discussing fictional things.. But still.. Hovering is much cooler and more advanced than being tracked

[Ded10c]

The weapon on the Emperor was still a combat-class cannon - the concept of heavier assault weapons for use against emplacements didn't exist until BZ2, and IMO it added a nice extra element to the strategy (even though it is a pain to organise into a wiki-usable format).

[RubberDuckyOne]

Well I have BZ1 and BZ2 on Disc. Personally I prefer the setting of BZ1, but do love the BZ2 maps. Especially that ICE map.

[The JLT]

Would you rather be: Chinese, Soviet, BDog, or NASA?

[The JLT]

I prefer BZ1 just because I grew up with it.

We are all entited to our own opinion.

[Retroburn]

Originally posted by Seqan:

You have just opened the BIGGEST can of worms in BZ history. I'm not even joking. This thread is going to get wildly out of control.

I lol'd at this. Thank you for the very detailed answer! VERY much appreciated!

Originally posted by Seqan:

In my opinion, BZ1 is the better game for one huge reason. The limitations and slower nature of the game allow me to strategize how I want to. It's not a brute force RTS that you win by gathering the most resources the fastest then overwhelming your opponent with whatever you want. By the time you have 10 offensive units, you can bet your opponent does too. Therefore, you have to plan accordingly. The game has a much higher strategic skill factor than most APM (actions per minute) based RTSes.

Also. The BZ1 single player story is MUCH better, and BZ2 did not build off of it. This slanted my view of BZ2 somewhat from the beginning.

I can relate to this. Very well said. Like Warcraft III (APM-based) vs Supreme Commander.