Can someone explain "Rise of the Black Dogs"?

[Lunethex]

The N64 game. The premise sounds so incredibly stupid to me and seems to just boil down to "Black Dog platoon misunderstands alliance between US and Russia and decides to attack both even though Black Dogs are American units"

Can anyone pick up a phone?

[Jowsense]

Hi there! Hope this helps.
http://battlezone.wikia.com/wiki/Rise_of_the_Black_Dogs

[Ded10c]

Your summary is, unfortunately, accurate.

The Rise of the Black Dogs Decompilation Project is taking advantage of the previously non-existent briefings and debriefings to add some flair to the story - that is, to make it actually make sense.

[catfood]

Yeah, it's pretty hilarious. Better than the TRO story in my opinion.

[Ded10c]

Originally posted by catfood:

Yeah, it's pretty hilarious. Better than the TRO story in my opinion.

At least The Red Odyssey's story makes logical sense and doesn't come quite so close to contradicting the base game.

[catfood]

Sure, the N64 game makes the black dogs look like idiots, but I think it makes more logical sense than 'o by the way, also the chinese.' Like, really? A whole other giant space army that the CCA and NSDF failed to mention in the base game?

... Sorry, I just recently finished the TRO black dogs campaign for the first time and I wasn't super impressed.

[Lancelot Chan]

Not to mention that historically back at the time Chinese suck big time under Mao. How can they build up a space force? TRO just doesn't even suspense my belief. FYI, I'm a HongKonger. :P

[Ded10c]

That's what they want you to think.

On a more serious note, it's not as if the USA or USSR could feasibly have made it into space in such a capacity either. Battlezone's narrative is campy and unrealistic, but that sorta goes with the territory. China had access Russian assistance prior to 1960 (up to eight or fifteen years' worth, depending on your source) and formally announced its space program in 1958. Its crewed space program started in '67, three years before the events of The Red Odyssey.

China may have only got its first man in space by 2003 as far as the real world is concerned, but the events of Battlezone are supposed to be almost totally secret. The Bamboo Curtain presents a similar opportunity in fiction to its Iron cousin. Who's to say what China was really capable of in the early 70s, particularly given that the CRA appears to be wiped out in Best Laid Plans?

[Lancelot Chan]

Ok. I'm all for wiping out the CRA. Go ahead, wipe out the CRA! HOORAH! ;)

[Novus Ordo Seclorum]

Originally posted by Ded10c:

...particularly given that the CRA appears to be wiped out in Light Up and Let Go?

That mission had you playing as the CRA, wiping out the CCA. I agree, the CRA were wiped out, but not in the final CRA mission. This event actually took place in the final Black Dog mission "The Best Laid Plans" where the Black Dogs wipe out the CRA. It can therefore be concluded that the events in the CRA campaign take place BEFORE the Black Dog campaign.

Since the Black Dogs are dealing with the CRA, it's quite possible that the NSDF didn't know about the CRA in the first place. Perhaps the Black Dogs were fighting the CRA secretly... this is where I lack the necessary research to figure out where the events in the RO campaigns fit into the base game's timeline. Given that CRA mission 7 "Leave Home" took place on Europa, which is the only time a world from the base game is used, I'm really not sure how RO fits into BZ's timeline.

[Lunethex]

The CCA spread fast through the Sol System even before the NSDF was barely eking out on Mars. The CRA Europa mission took place way before Arkin's betrayal for sure. Since the CRA didn't have cloaking tech at the start of their campaign, and the Black Dog's narrator talks about how they were stuck on Ganymede while the "struggle for the Fury Technology began in earnest." at the start of theirs.

The Chinese were on Ganymede for a long time before the Black Dogs arrived. You can also infer that the CRA and CCA were tentatively...um, "allied" I guess before the Chinese decided they wanted etc to themselves. By virtue of Communism perhaps.

It all fits in pretty well if you ask me. Bio-metal's a hell of a drug. Since Battlezone lacks any sort of mission dating it's impossible to timeline it and find places where missions would slot in. I say the CRA Europa mission happened while the NSDF was on Venus. It gives time for them to have discovered Pegasus, colonized Elysium, and set up a huge military holding on Ganymede after wiping the CCA from the planet.

The only thing I take issue with is how nobody ever mentions to their superiors (like Commander Harris to General Collins) "Hey the Chinese are here can we get some backup they just destroyed billions of dollars of our stuff and are killing thousands of people!!" or the CCA at large being informed of it.

That all being said the failure for the final black dog mission is hysterical. "You are relieved of your command pending court martial, get your ass back here now, I want to talk with you."

Yeah you're real concerned with court martialing your decorated war hero of a lieutenant here instead of informing YOUR DAMN GENERALS THAT THE CHINESE WERE WAGING WAR WITH YOU UNDER EVERYONE'S NOSES!

[catfood]

If you fail a different mission he calls you a 'dope'. Just a little out of place after a horrible space massacre, haha.

My real problem with the TRO campaign was the pacing of the missions and just sort of how the story doesn't progress at all. The portal was pretty much the only plot point for 12 missions.

[Ded10c]

Originally posted by Spork O. Lantern:

Originally posted by Ded10c:

...particularly given that the CRA appears to be wiped out in Light Up and Let Go?

That mission had you playing as the CRA, wiping out the CCA. I agree, the CRA were wiped out, but not in the final CRA mission. This event actually took place in the final Black Dog mission "The Best Laid Plans" where the Black Dogs wipe out the CRA. It can therefore be concluded that the events in the CRA campaign take place BEFORE the Black Dog campaign.

Yes, thank you for catching that. You are entirely correct. Red Storm takes place entirely before Dogs of War.

Originally posted by Spork O. Lantern:

Since the Black Dogs are dealing with the CRA, it's quite possible that the NSDF didn't know about the CRA in the first place. Perhaps the Black Dogs were fighting the CRA secretly... this is where I lack the necessary research to figure out where the events in the RO campaigns fit into the base game's timeline. Given that CRA mission 7 "Leave Home" took place on Europa, which is the only time a world from the base game is used, I'm really not sure how RO fits into BZ's timeline.

The Black Dogs in this context - specifically, the Black Dog 4th Platoon - are part of the NSDF. They may not have managed to communicate with NSDF Command at the time, but at least part of the NSDF was aware of the CRA from first contact and the rest would have been informed in due course.

Red Storm takes place while the main NSDF and CCA columns are engaged on Venus. Dogs of War starts at the same time as the NSDF deployment to the Jovian system, and assumedly ends some time during the same (before the activation of the Furies). Apart from precisely when Dogs of War ends - which is a best guess - the rest is known as fact.

Originally posted by Lunethex:

Since the CRA didn't have cloaking tech at the start of their campaign, and the Black Dog's narrator talks about how they were stuck on Ganymede while the "struggle for the Fury Technology began in earnest." at the start of theirs.

Cloaking is a Chinese development based on technology of Cthonian origin, not Fury.

Originally posted by Lunethex:

You can also infer that the CRA and CCA were tentatively...um, "allied" I guess before the Chinese decided they wanted etc to themselves.

The dialogue line you are referring to is sarcastic. The Chinese and Russians fell out nearly a decade before Battlezone begins.

Originally posted by Lunethex:

It all fits in pretty well if you ask me. Bio-metal's a hell of a drug. Since Battlezone lacks any sort of mission dating it's impossible to timeline it and find places where missions would slot in. I say the CRA Europa mission happened while the NSDF was on Venus. It gives time for them to have discovered Pegasus, colonized Elysium, and set up a huge military holding on Ganymede after wiping the CCA from the planet.

We've done the legwork for you :)[battlezone.wikia.com] Anything that can't be logically proven is marked with a footnote explaining how much of its position we can't nail down.

Originally posted by Lunethex:

The only thing I take issue with is how nobody ever mentions to their superiors (like Commander Harris to General Collins) "Hey the Chinese are here can we get some backup they just destroyed billions of dollars of our stuff and are killing thousands of people!!" or the CCA at large being informed of it.

They do tell Harris - he's the platoon commander, the same rank as Grizzly One, down there dealing with the mess with everybody else. You just don't see him on the field. Collins, on the other hand, is... out of range, maybe? Busy?