So, quickness 7 dodge 5 and everybody hits me like it's not there??

[Asuzu]

In previous releases Quick/Dodge used to mean something, even made solo plays possible.
Now everyone and their granny hits me like I have 0 dodge chance, this is either ridiculoussly tweaked or bugged?

[Phoenix7786]

Could just be a bad streak. My main walks around out in the open like Neo most of the time but once in awhile the RNG goes bork and suddenly even in heavy cover I get bombarded.

[Asuzu]

Originally posted by Randy:

Could just be a bad streak. My main walks around out in the open like Neo most of the time but once in awhile the RNG goes bork and suddenly even in heavy cover I get bombarded.

No mate, it's not a streak, everyone just hits me, in heavy cover and whatnot, steady and every round
Or Ghouls in Sewers 1.0 just lolrun past my party and hit my char, each of them landing attacjs easy.
I am playing on Very Hard, but hell, what happened to dodging in this game?

[Lцсᶖаᶇ º¹]

Originally posted by Asuzu:

In previous releases Quick/Dodge used to mean something, even made solo plays possible.

The first game was super easy though, it's more a flaw of the first game I think, not a drawback from this one. Even though this one was harder I enjoyed it better. I couldn't just hamfist it though dragonfall like I did with returns.

[Asuzu]

Yeah but the thing is, it seems that Dodge was nerfed so hard it is basically a waste of karma now?
Like, why would I even bother with putting points into it, since everyone and their grandmother can still hit me like, no problem?
And on top of that, it makes solo running next to impossible now, since Dodge at least allowed certain builds to solo the game, now I simply see no way to do it.

[Asuzu]

Originally posted by SpenReyn:

With Returns I can see the doing it solo thing, but with Dragonfall? Running with your team is part of the fun, not how god-like a character you can make. But that's just me.

I'll have to try a quickness dodge type again and see if it can work or not, I know you have to sacrifice the adrenal booster to get wired reflexes but that gives you one auto-dodge each round.

My Shaman build has 2 quickness and no dodge and she gets hit almost every time, even with armor 6 and cover, so maybe it works in Dragonfall, just not as well as in DMS.

Man I already soloed Dragonfall before with a quck/dodge char, it was really chalenging, but at least quick/dodge gave me the edge I needed
Now, its plain broken...

[BDK]

When you miss someone 3 times in a row with 83% probability to hit them, you know there's something wrong with the game. I guess it's just another bug to add to the enormous list.

[Morphic]

Originally posted by BDK:

When you miss someone 3 times in a row with 83% probability to hit them, you know there's something wrong with the game. I guess it's just another bug to add to the enormous list.

... Or Y'know probability is like that. #Ragersrage

Back on topic: Dodge does seem much worse than it did before. However since I've always solo'ed as a Mage/Decker Dodging has always been pointless to me to fully test when and how it's changed.

I just hope they don't change the Armor Spell. That spell is amazing and is basically the only way to solo as a Mage/Decker.

[Asuzu]

Originally posted by Setzway:

Originally posted by BDK:

When you miss someone 3 times in a row with 83% probability to hit them, you know there's something wrong with the game. I guess it's just another bug to add to the enormous list.

... Or Y'know probability is like that. #Ragersrage

Back on topic: Dodge does seem much worse than it did before. However since I've always solo'ed as a Mage/Decker Dodging has always been pointless to me to fully test when and how it's changed.

I just hope they don't change the Armor Spell. That spell is amazing and is basically the only way to solo as a Mage/Decker.

Kind of annoying to return to replay the game inb4 HK expansion, only to see it got broken even more than it was before...
So many actual bugs are still in the game, and they break things on top of it with patches?? Lol

[Morphic]

Originally posted by Asuzu:

Kind of annoying to return to replay the game inb4 HK expansion, only to see it got broken even more than it was before...
So many actual bugs are still in the game, and they break things on top of it with patches?? Lol

*shrugs* I haven't really noticed a lot of bugs in my ~4 playthroughs on Hard. However I did encounter that deselection/can't select anything bug upon entering an area a few times ... but a simple reload fixed it. It did break my immersion but it didn't bother that much.

As for skill changes and what not ... I doubt it's a bug but rather a balance decision. As the other guy mentioned, Dodging was practically rigged in Returns. The Armor spell in Dragonfall is Pseudo-rigged IMO because of how it can make you negate 90% of enemy damage most times. Which would be perfectly okay if the AI was smart enough to use sunder skills to reduce your armor... instead they'd rather swarm you.

[jbridso]

If you're playing on very hard that will do it as it give enemies a higher % chance to hit/dodge.

As you hit really high % chances to dodge say 95% on normal, which equates to only 1 out of 20 shots will land on average. Now lower that by 30% for the diffculty (just a guess at the %) and all of a sudden you're sitting at 65% which is average 1 in 3 hits will land. So you'd take about 7 X more damage from a -30% difference in accuracy.

Basically, it's a hyperbolic curve for damage reduction on a percentage system.

[Asuzu]

Originally posted by jbridso:

If you're playing on very hard that will do it as it give enemies a higher % chance to hit/dodge.

As you hit really high % chances to dodge say 95% on normal, which equates to only 1 out of 20 shots will land on average. Now lower that by 30% for the diffculty (just a guess at the %) and all of a sudden you're sitting at 65% which is average 1 in 3 hits will land. So you'd take about 7 X more damage from a -30% difference in accuracy.

Basically, it's a hyperbolic curve for damage reduction on a percentage system.

Well, right now, this is not even 1/3, it is 3/3 they hit me at crazy quickness/dodge levels, basically making quickness/dodge useless for avoidance.. at all.
I vividly remember being able to dodge at least 2/3 of attacks coming my way, which made lategame soloable before.
Now it's plain broken :(

[Asuzu]

Originally posted by SpenReyn:

I''ve put in an entry on the Shadowrun.com forums and I'm looking now to see if others are having the same issue. No one replied.

Thanks man
Hopefully devs can at least comment on this.

[v0]

I only played on Hard and regularly invested in Dodge so it was at 7 at end (other investments went to quickness = 11, ranged weapons = 8 and charisma = 7). Never soloed, so it was always team of four. There was only one battle that gave me any serious difficulty (4 vs 10 in crammed space and we were getting slammed with grenades while the team I picked had limited AoE capability).

More than half the time my character was missed if the attack originated from nearby. I haven't tried a scientific study of this but my experience seems to be the further the attack comes from the less likely dodge will work. Which is just fine I think as one is more aware of immediate surroundings. (I actually wonder whether sniper rifles working so well over large distances was partly related to target's dodging being negated.)

I think if a game is soloable on VERY hard while it normally lets you use four team members then it is the game that is broken :P You aren't supposed to be god.

[Asuzu]

Originally posted by SpenReyn:

I went back to where I had quickness 6 and dodge 5, tried soloing the OTK run, the first two guards whacked me in about three rounds, didn't use any medpacks or anything, the drones missed me but the guards didn't miss a single shot, I was in medium cover the whole time. I'll ask the devs if they can test this and see if it's an issue or if they nerfed it deliberately.

Cheers man.
Enemies don't miss a single shot at me with quick 7 dodge 5
And also imagine they take shotgun shots (!!!) at me in medium cover, from across the map and still HIT every time - very nice cniper shotguns, I want one please

[jbridso]

Quickness/Dodge of 5-7 isn't really that spectacular, it's actually just average and you'll be lucky to have a 30-50% chance to evade fire in the late game. You really should be capping out at 11 Quickness and 10 Dodge in late game as a Street Samurai, it makes an enourmous difference.

It's kinda like comparing the hit rates of your main vs the hit rates of your companions... those extra 2-3 points in a skill are huge.