Dragonfall vs Hong Kong

[Coyote_Black]

Which game did you like better? I really like the graphical update and overall feel in Hong Kong but the story is just not drawing me in like DMS or DF did =/ It's making me not want to play HK because I don't want to get use to the better controls if I don't like the game

Does HK get....any better?

[Cursed Life]

The story of DF is just better, nothing can change that

[tukkek]

Hong Kong is littered with typos, bugs (I literally could not finish the game) and amateur level design, especially in the second half. HK is honestly the only one of the three that is actually a bad video game and it's always made me feel that it was made by the interns on Harebrained Studios while everyone else was working on Battletech or whatever.

The other two are absolute fire and easily among my top favorite RPG games of all time.

[Heau]

I'm a little confused by Tukkek's comment. The buggy one is far and away the first game. And the storytelling and writing quality significantly jumped up from first title to DF&HK. And I'm not one to be overly drawn to a game by storytelling in TBS games generally but even I noticed.

Personally HK is my favorite but as I mentioned, I care more about mechanics, interface, character customisation, etc. than strictly storytelling and particularly customisation was improved upon from one title to the next. The only thing I really missed in HK is a higher difficulty setting.

I generally preferred the story culmination in DF, and Glory's side story is the one I enjoyed the most across the board, but every other HK side story was more interesting to me than Eiger's, Blitz' etc. I particularly enjoyed reading Racter's and Gaichu's that are darker anti-heroes.

From a general game setting, while I have very limited knowledge of the shadowrun universe from the books/tabletop rpg, the whole "queen of the bazaar" setup of DF and the proximity to our fixer from DF was offputting. I generally preferred the shadowrunning for survival narrative from HK to the loyal friend vendetta from dead man's switch and DF.

So anyway, it's quite possible we don't enjoy the same things in games, but I personally preferred HK, with DF as a very close second and dead man's switch much, much further behind.

[tukkek]

I can't remember a single bug in either of the previous games while I literally had to give up on HK (not that I was enjoying it anyway, so it was kind of a blessing). Maybe you played it right when it was released and they've fixed it later on but didn't do the same for HK.

As far as the quality of writing, not only me and Charmed above but it's pretty widely agreed Dragonfall is the trilogy's peak.

[tukkek]

If you look at Steam ratings, Dragonfall is the best-rated one and HK is the worst. Seems about right to me even though Returns might be my personal favorite.

[Dethlane]

Gameplay-wise HK is better (EXCEPT matrix, hate HK version of it). Story, characters and setting wise, DF is better.

[tukkek]

In which way do you think gameplay is better in HK? I don't seem to remember anything much different from Dragonfall but it's been a while since I played it.

[frdnwsm]

HK tactical combat is much better; you get to prep for combat before opening a door, instead of having to just open it first and get blasted by the enemy inside the room.

Also more types of weapons and cyberware.

I rate them both pretty much as even, enjoyment-wise.

[Heau]

Originally posted by tukkek:

I can't remember a single bug in either of the previous games while I literally had to give up on HK (not that I was enjoying it anyway, so it was kind of a blessing). Maybe you played it right when it was released and they've fixed it later on but didn't do the same for HK.

As far as the quality of writing, not only me and Charmed above but it's pretty widely agreed Dragonfall is the trilogy's peak.

Bug wise, over the last 2-3 years, that I've on and off checked the forums, the most recurring bug thread across all versions is from shadowrun returns turn lock. I hadn't encountered it that I could remember in my first playthrough but the 2nd time I played it I had to reload maybe 20 times from the first time you encounter the bugs(enemy units - just to clarify) until the end.

Hell, deadman's switch was rewritten in the HK engine as a mod by a fan to get around Returns bugs.

Originally posted by tukkek:

If you look at Steam ratings, Dragonfall is the best-rated one and HK is the worst. Seems about right to me even though Returns might be my personal favorite.

I think there was a lot of hate about Matrix changes and I'm tempted to say it probably drove a lot of bad ratings. Frankly personally I prefer the HK version but I know it's been heavily criticized.

As for what was better in HK gameplay wise, what frdnwsm said pretty much. Also the shaman totem changes opening far more build and min/max options. The UI has also been increasingly more responsive over the titles. The improvement was far more perceptible from Returns to DF than from DF to HK though.

[dmsephiroth]

Hongkong was a rly disappointment for me sadly.

I mean..the combat system was not great even in DR, but that you cannot even loot enemies..was rly rly a bad descion :(
Also the writing in hongkong was not fun at all.

I just finished shadowrun:returns and except the +weird+ ending it was ok.
But im looking forward to enjoy dragonfall again<3

[Coyote_Black]

Yeah so far Hong Kong has been a chore to get through, I want to stick through it just so I can say I have finished them all lol I'm not even sure what it is but I am just not connecting with this game

[tukkek]

Ninja, I was exactly where you are now before I encountered the bug that forced me to quit my playthrough. I wish I had quit sooner - even disregarding the bug.

Good on you if you wanna see it through but if all you need is a little push, then go play something more worth your time. HK is not good and there's good games out there to play.

[Fenris]

Sincerely, the two first shadowruns games were better than this one. But i had some enjoyment to finish this one too. It was clean without bugs and the gameplay was ok. The problem was the meh story compared to the two others, especially the second one.
It's so bad there won't be a 4th opus. I would like it.

[DaveOfDeath]

All three games have "game breaking" issues... none of them are perfect.

In returns, Riggers can't take drones to the UB facility without the game locking up. (That's the bug I fixed in the HK version of Dead Man Switch referenced by an above poster... In case it's unclear, I'm one of the three builders who ported DMS into HK)

DragonFall... Just look up the Apex mission bug. It's still unresolved, and regularly gets necro'd by player after player. (I've narrowed down what I believe is the root cause, which is an AI glitch with controlled "slave" drones. Same basic glitch as the returns one, just ramped up because Apex controls multiple drones on-screen at any given time.)

HK has the item duplication glitch, the inability to load property tower, and the same Rigger/Drone AI error. It also has the real-time matrix vision cones, which are a pretty constant source of complaints. It has a love or hate following to it.

Which one is your "favorite" in the series seems to boil down to the individuals position on a couple of catalysts.

First one is If you prefer the long winded story elements, world building, and setting lore... You probably prefer HK over DragonFall. (The additional setting information was a stretch goal of the kickstarter, and was very popular with some players.)

Second major catalyst is the matrix. Really boils down to if you prefer the "challenge" of the real-time frogger mechanic of HK's matrix vs the "blue-er but very much the same as meatspace" combat of DragonFall.

Some players think Returns is the best since the story is more in line with a pen and paper setting... Hired for (x) job, but in the course of completing that job you find that you've walked face first into a much larger loosely connected problem. That's *pretty much* par for the course for most runs with a live GM that I've ever been involved with.

There is no right or wrong answer... People play things for different reasons, and want and get different reactions from the same material.

[dr.rosenrosen]

The controls for both games suck. The gameplay all up for these titles suck. Even Cyberpunk is better gameplay wise.

BUT I found both of the games better than Cyberpunk's bloated, hollywood tool worshipping mess. They both were much better stories and created a better sense of atmosphere and immersion into the genre than Cyberjunk ever did.

That being said, I find HK the superior game. First, it is the less suck of the two games control wise. Its matrix sucks but so does DF's. The "hacking" in all of these types of games is stupid and I'd wish they'd use skill checks instead.

I know the popular choice is to say DF has the better writing but I don't agree at all. Eiger sucks just as much as Duncan. HK's fixer is much much better. I know Glory is a favorite of many but I'm not sure how "oooh I worshipped teh devil!!! Grrr" is somehow considered great art next to Gobbet's or IsObel's story. Gaichu and Racter simply crush blitz and the squishy shaman in DF...

DF was also way too preachy. It was like reading something from someone's 13 year old daughter who just got back from woke camp. It made me whack the eco terrorist dragon as a matter of principle.