Sarge: The only brawn worth playing?

[Sk3wlbus]

I've noticed lately that in almost every high level game I play, there are double Sarges on both teams. Even in the team App is making he is going to be running double Sarges.

Now I could easily ask why, but the answer is fairly obvious. Sarge is significantly better than the other two brawn characters.

Cogwheel:

Don't bother telling me Cogwheel is viable on any level other than Causeway, because he really isn't. He moves way too slowly and is by far the easiest character to lock down with even a sub-par defense. Cog has the lowest win rate of the three brawn characters and the 3rd lowest cube damage of all characters.. even lower than Eliza, a defense character.

I'm going to propose something wild that will probably make a lot of you guys freak out, but bare with me. Cog needs a buff if he is to compete with Sarge in high level play. I'll let you guys offer some suggestions. I personally wouldn't mind seeing him be the same speed as Sarge and SS for a few weeks to see the side effects and gauge whether it would be worth keeping the increased speed or removing it.

Sweet Science:

I believe Sweet Science is the best character for bum rushing in the first 15 minutes. After that his usefulness quickly drops. Sweet Science cannot push because he has no means of long range attacks. His potential for mid control is worse than any other character as well. If the other team has mid control, Sweet Science is going to struggle. Sweet Science doesn't really need a buff, but he definitely doesn't need a nerf either. A team of double competent Sarges is much more effective than a team of double competent Sweet Sciences.

Sarge:

By far the best brawn character for many reasons. Sarge doesn't have the speed handicap of Cog, is the best character for spamming base defenses, has the fastest regenerating character special that costs nothing (grenades), regenerates health an unlimited amount of times, has the largest ammo clip of any character with his machine gun, and so much more.

I'm not asking for Sarge to be nerfed, I'm just curious if anyone else has noticed the pattern of double Sarges in so many games. I'm also trying to make it clear that Sweet Science does NOT need a nerf because he is barely on par with Sarge. If we are to talk character balancing, Cogwheel needs some sort of balancing to help put him back on par with Sarge and SS.

[Kameelstokje]

Cogwheel just needs Cogwhale then he'll be OP ;p

If you ask me Cog's strongest point is either holding up defenders going to their cube meaning your team gets more time to attack it or just run around on defence as a support as he can deal some good damage unless that changed at some point. But the thing is that for the 1st you need to get Cog in position and there actually need to be defenders he can hold off else it's a waste. The 2nd won't happen unless you have 3 defenders as Nigel is just to good as a support defender to be replaced by a cogwheel. His mortars aren't worth picking him either cause to really damage a good chunk of the enemy's base you need to spend a good amount on the mortars, which can be easilly taken out afterwards, which means you waste a lot of money compared to just throwing a bomb on it.

[Paul / 03data]

Ursprungligen skrivet av sk3wlbus:

I still think SS has very little potential for mid control due to only having short range attacks.

So the graviton pull is a short range attack?

[Hayden]

I wouldn't say it's exactly long range, and it doesn't really fit the conventional definition of attack.

[TarikWasHere]

at least with this they cant moan about ss op :')

[BB]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Kameelstokje:

I don't agree with that BB. As a sarge Baboon did way more for the oQ team then just suiciding. He basically took a lot of pressure of others on the team by staying alive with his true grit so people focussed on him. Beside when he was digging around at the enemy's last base he held 2 defenders busy.

He's a support offensive class because his combat ability is garbage. He pretty much has the same role as Ast but he also places spawn points.

Ursprungligen skrivet av Kameelstokje:

A sarge on the loose is a threat you have to deal with or he'll be placing spawn points all over the map.

Sweets does it better.

Ursprungligen skrivet av sk3wlbus:

If you think he is already a great character, how do you think people use him wrong

Tracking is the hardest form of aiming. Cog is by far the best 1v1 class and is more than capable of killing everyone.

[Aeon]

I still rate SS higher than Sarge. Actually as the best Hero you can find. Cog is one of the worst hero's you can pick from. Both Sarge and SS is better overall in any given situations. The mortars are an easy target for the "scout" on the team, (Asterella or Juan), and the extra health is not worth it compared to the extra speed both Sarge and SS have.

SS dough have it all. A mobile fast heavy hitter with Spawn and Radars. In many cases he is nearly as mobile and fast as Juan, but way more dangerous if he get's behind the defences because of his bricks.

If I was to rate every Hero in the game, the list would be like this:

9. Asterella * Everything she does, someone else can do better.
8. Tony * Have so many counters
7. Cogwheel * Way to immobile
----------
6. Dream Genie * Great, but lacks more mobility compared to the rest of the heroes.
5. Eliza * Great both offensive and defensive, but lacks in instant total damage.
4. Sarge * Mobile and important, one of the best frontliner.
3. Nigel * Most important hero in large maps. Mainly usage is to neglect Spawn and radar trapping.
2. Juan * Best hit and run hero. Can be used in every position on the map. Lacks better bricks to be the best.
1. Sweet Science * Fast, Deals high damage, have great defences, great bricks, dangerous to ignore.

[Matse007]

i would rather create a tier list than a ranking. some chars are at the same level as others.

[Rail]

IMO it depends on what you need for a team.

Sarge: Speed, poke, pressure & spike damage.

Cog: Tank, CQC, artillery, defence.

SS: Leroy Jenkins.

[Hayden]

But you can't really choose for what you need. You don't know what the other team will choose, or how they will play. Statisically, Cog will still be a set back to your team in many cases, and Sarge/SS will be chosen instead because they are more versatile in the situations they can handle.

[Rail]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Husk:

But you can't really choose for what you need. You don't know what the other team will choose, or how they will play. Statisically, Cog will still be a set back to your team in many cases, and Sarge/SS will be chosen instead because they are more versatile in the situations they can handle.

That's part of the fun. Different arenas also command different heroes, then there's team comps!

Who knows what F2P will bring... ;)

[Matse007]

guys just implement block roulette as a certain gamemode it will be a lot more fun and people would play all classes

[Timotheeee1]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Paul / 03data:

Ursprungligen skrivet av µT Matse007:

Lol maybe thats an NA thing. but SS is much much stronger coordianted than a Sarge. i mean you can still take down a sarge...

As a somewhat decent SS, sarges are usually free kills.

+1. They are also fairly easy to kill as Dream genie if you have a health station already placed.

[Timotheeee1]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Aeon:

I still rate SS higher than Sarge. Actually as the best Hero you can find. Cog is one of the worst hero's you can pick from. Both Sarge and SS is better overall in any given situations. The mortars are an easy target for the "scout" on the team, (Asterella or Juan), and the extra health is not worth it compared to the extra speed both Sarge and SS have.

SS dough have it all. A mobile fast heavy hitter with Spawn and Radars. In many cases he is nearly as mobile and fast as Juan, but way more dangerous if he get's behind the defences because of his bricks.

If I was to rate every Hero in the game, the list would be like this:

9. Asterella * Everything she does, someone else can do better.
8. Tony * Have so many counters
7. Cogwheel * Way to immobile
----------
6. Dream Genie * Great, but lacks more mobility compared to the rest of the heroes.
5. Eliza * Great both offensive and defensive, but lacks in instant total damage.
4. Sarge * Mobile and important, one of the best frontliner.
3. Nigel * Most important hero in large maps. Mainly usage is to neglect Spawn and radar trapping.
2. Juan * Best hit and run hero. Can be used in every position on the map. Lacks better bricks to be the best.
1. Sweet Science * Fast, Deals high damage, have great defences, great bricks, dangerous to ignore.

Yet looking at the global stats, Nigel has the worst win ratio of any hero and Tony has the second highest.

[Hayden]

Eh, global stats aren't too meaningful of an indicator. For example, Nigel is probably a more popular pick among newer players than say, Cog, and is a more complicated class to play well. Since these players would make up the majority of games, the stats are dragged down and biased. Sweet Science is likely picked more by experienced players and so it's biased to them a little.

But, for example, In higher level play, Nigel is pretty much guaranteed to be picked because he is incredibly useful.

You have to pick a target audience to balance for, and I think this should be high levels. As long as it doesn't completely ruin low level play.

[Timotheeee1]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Husk:

Eh, global stats aren't too meaningful of an indicator. For example, Nigel is probably a more popular pick among newer players than say, Cog, and is a more complicated class to play well. Since these players would make up the majority of games, the stats are dragged down and biased. Sweet Science is likely picked more by experienced players and so it's biased to them a little.

But, for example, In higher level play, Nigel is pretty much guaranteed to be picked because he is incredibly useful.

You have to pick a target audience to balance for, and I think this should be high levels. As long as it doesn't completely ruin low level play.

High level play is gonna be a VERY small part of the game when F2P comes out. I'd say it needs to be balanced for mid level.