Space Hulk vs 40k

[Ceti]

Due to the amount of whining about things that have no business being in a Space Hulk FPS adaptation, I've been wondering if people actually knew about the original tabletop game.

I'm under the impression that a lot of people are just here for the 40k setting and don't actually care nor know about Space Hulk... I'm not the most knowledgable guy about the core game (I've discovered it pretty recently) but to me, Deathwing seems like a pretty decent adaptation, faithfull to the atmosphere, mechanics and lore and most of the suggestions I see on the Steam forums are not really taking into account that this is supposed to be a Space Hulk game, not a 40k shooter based on a big ship.

Anyway, curious to hear what Space Hulk fans think of this game and if the amount of whining and complaining is just people misunderstanding what this game's about, or if there are legit suggestions about what a Space Hulk fps adaptation should be.

[Smackvein]

Space hulk is a part of the 40k universe. Space Hulk: Deathwing is absolutly a 40k game. The mechanic that makes the Space Hulk table top game stand out is that all your marines are in a single file line, due to the tight passages of the ship. There is another game on steam which recreates the tabletop game rules perfectly. Deathwing seems to be a more accesible shooter in the spirit of the table top game designed to entice non-40k fans. To say people are here just for the atmosphere and don't know about the table top game is unfair. Most 40k fans who like coop shooters will pick this up reguardless of which title they have chosen. Non-40k fans who like coop shooters might pick this up and be opened up to a whole other universe of cool ♥♥♥♥. Either way saying "Space Hulk vs 40k" is like saying "Super Mario vs The Water Level".

[The Coolest Cat]

Video game adaptations of tabletop games often get left with the arbritrary fluff and parts that translate to boring gameplay, especially in cases like this.

Weapon jamming in the tabletop was just part of the whole random aspect of the tabletop game, and it's great in the tabletop because the entire game is based on dice rolls and luck.

In the video game, random weapon jamming is jarring, as the rest of the game has precise, fluid movement and control from the player all based on the persons skill. Suddenly when a random element messes with that it spoils the gameplay.

There can't EVER be a video game adaptation of a tabletop game unless the game is a remake (ala Space Hulk : Ascension) or it just uses the premice and setting.

This game is a perfect example of something trying to mix both of the genres and failing horribly.


What's here besides the setting of Space Hulk for fans of the tabletop? There's no in depth strategic gameplay like the tabletop has, just some features from the tabletop that are thrown in.

What's here besides the setting for fans of co-op horde games? Basic horde gameplay with no co-op elements, progression or incentives to explore other areas.


The game is seriously missing it's full potential, but it's a potential that can't be reached unless it becomes a fully fledged Single Player game with strategic squad based gameplay (enhancing the Tabletop elements) or becomes a full fledged multiplayer game with co-op gameplay, random elements, exploration incentives and progression, while abandoning everything about the Tabletop except the setting.

Rather than having a mediocre game that fails to deliver on both, just adding to the pile of failed 40k games, it's best to have a game that just does one thing really well.

[cszolee79]

Nerd raeg incoming.

[Ceti]

I'm using 'vs' to precise my thought and to avoid a really long title, I personnally like both SH and 40k (and AoS, to a lesser degree) but I'm just curious about wether the majority is there for the 40k setting or if people are fully aware of SH and have proper suggestions about how to adapt it into a fps.

As for changes, I'm also aware that there are two other games "more faithful" to the tabletop, my question is wether or not this squad based shooter can emulate the feeling and mechanics of playing the tabletop game.

For example I really liked the jamming mechanic and wished ot could play a bigger factor to boost co op, and playing the beta in higher dificulty really has that "think about placement and possible spaws" feel that the tabletop also has.

Then again, I agree with you on the need for randomness and exploration inventives, but I honnestly had more fun playing this than Vermintide...

Anyway, not trying to attack anyone, I'm just curious about wether or not SH fans are satisfied with the game and why :)

[Ceti]

And I personally think that, even thouhg SH is part of the 40k Universe, both games actually play out really differently. I wouldn't expect a SH game to make you feel like a Terminator is an overpowered kill machine able to single-handedly kill thousands of Genestealers with your bear fists, it's just not what the game is about.
Id be pissed if a 40k game didn't have severall races to choose from, a ♥♥♥♥ ton of weapons and big battlefields with a lot happenning, but a lot of suggestions I see would be more like asking a nuclear bazooka in a Batman stealth game : kinda out of place when taking into account the base material.

[(N☆G) Jackal ★JJ★]

Okay, what people don't get it isn't JUST a Space Hulk game because a lot of things would be different and it would honestly drive a lot of people away while only bringing in Space Hulk people who probably aren't too keen on the idea of a FPS verison but would try it anyway and that is a very small focus group for a developer.

This is a Left 4 Dead meets Space Hulk. It is suppose to have a very high replayability with constant fear and being over run while being on a giant Space Hulk. It isn't going to be like the lore where genes literally 1 shot your terms and you can't strafe or any of that other stuff because those ruin FPS games more times than none.

This game breaks a ton of lore, and the only way to truly jusifiy it is they are trying to bring L4D massive replayability (teamwork, horde after horde, specials that wreck team coorindation, coonstant fear, etc etc) and bring it into the WH:40K world. The only way they can even remotely do it in a 40K world is by doing it on a Space Hulk. Anything else like an abandoned ground facility, wide open battlegrounds, and just about any other enviroment just wouldn't make sense for the desired effect they want to have in a 40K universe.

So I am 100% just chopping this up as a L4D WH:40K game instead of a Space Hulk adaptation because this game has more in common with L4D mechanics than it does for a Space Hulk game and if you throw lore out of it entirely, it simply feels like a L4D clone.

[datguy13]

I'm pretty well qualified to speak on the subject, I think, considering I've actually helped quality assurance for one of those afforementioned Space Hulk video games.

Yes, this is true to the Space Hulk license. I was told, during the Beta process for Space Hulk Ascension that the Space Hulk licenses required certain key features by Games Workshop. Similar features are in SH: Deathwing to what was in SH: Ascension.

By design, that makes it less true to the Warhammer 40,000 license, due to the mechanics changes between the boardgame and the tabletop miniatures game.

[Ceti]

Jackal : To be franck a lot o the stuff you talked about linking it to L4D could be said of Space Hulk aswell (hordes, teamwork, constant fear), but I agree that strafing and damages are better that way (even if some Genestealers do one shot you in higher difficulty, which felt a bit cheap due to the lack of visual differences between specials).

I've played my fair share of L4D in my time and I just can't see that "skin" feel a lot of people seem to have, the game just doesn't feel like a L4D clone for me and if the devs do implement random spawns and such, the Space Hulk feel is very real in my opinion. I see how the two compare, I just didn't feel like I was playing a skinned version of L4D during the beta.


Datguy : Nice insight, thanks ! I also feel that 40k and SH are quite different, even if they share the same universe. I like that this game is true to SH without trying too much to content "regular" 40k fans, even if I'm under the impression that it's the main grief people have with the game : they wanted a 40k game, and this is not it.

[Ceti]

Originally posted by Sid Vicious:

played Space Hulk: Vengeance of the Blood Angels on 3DO back in 95, was a blast and ahead of its day, actually better then Space Hulk Ascension i play on steam today, imho

You make me want to dig out some 3DO emulators ^^
How is it better exactly, if you don't mind ?

[cszolee79]

Originally posted by LN:

You make me want to dig out some 3DO emulators ^^
How is it better exactly, if you don't mind ?

No need, it runs on Windows :) Actually it was one of the earliest Win95 DirectX games. And great fun.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6w7Aby_Vzw

[BiGDaDdY]

Why all the talk about table top game?? I mean space hulk was on the 3do system and this is very simular just with newer graphics. I still have my 3do and spacehulk works just fine.

[BiGDaDdY]

Actually gameplay.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOKyHj1fdYY

[Ishan451]

Originally posted by BigDaddy:

Why all the talk about table top game??

Because Space Hulk was the first edition of what would become eventually Warhammer 40k, and the OP is complaining that people do want it to be updated to reflect the current lore more than the lore as it was in the 1st Edition. After all Warhammer 40k underwent quite some fundamental changes to its lore over the past 25 years.

[Dave3216]

Originally posted by cszolee79:

Originally posted by LN:

You make me want to dig out some 3DO emulators ^^
How is it better exactly, if you don't mind ?

No need, it runs on Windows :) Actually it was one of the earliest Win95 DirectX games. And great fun.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6w7Aby_Vzw

Looks like 2 things never change in 40k, getting the voice acting wrong and bolters that sound terribly underwhelming :)

[badminton]

Originally posted by LN:

I wouldn't expect a SH game to make you feel like a Terminator is an overpowered kill machine able to single-handedly kill thousands of Genestealers with your bear fists, it's just not what the game is about.

But Terminators ARE overpowered kill machines :P Maybe not able to kill thousands of stealers with their fists, but able to hold their own most of the time. In Space Hulk they're super weak in melee because of the limited board size and lack of Genestealer numbers (maybe a dozen max at once) and ranged attack. A lot of the table top rules were designed to make Terminators and Genestealers hard-counters to each other (range/jamming/limited ammo to melee/ambushes/infinite reinforcements), because that's the nature of the game. It's not necessarily lore friendly anymore (at least since 2nd or 3rd edition when Genestealers automatically bypassed all armour).

The biggest difference between the more strategic space hulk games and this one is scale. There has never been a space hulk game with this much stuff coming at you at once and from this many different directions. Until now it's only ever been maybe 3 or 4 genestealers going for one terminiator with plenty of range for him to kill them if he didn't jam (unless the terminator player was a sped). With the change in scale comes a change in game play and balancing so I don't really think it's fair to compare Deathwing to Space Hulk either.