Transphobic jokes

[Haze System]

I've been watching a Let's Play of this game and it looks really fun. I bought it (though I haven't played it yet) but I've noticed some transphobic dialog from characters in the game, which there is no reason for.

I don't know the exact wording off the top of my head, and the game files are encrypted/obfuscated so I can't check them, so this may not be entirely accurate and there may be more, but I noticed these:

"It turned out my bro was my sis"
"So I switched gender"

Saying things like these in a game only serves to enable others to justify persecuting trans people. Don't get me wrong, I love this game and am looking forward to playing it when I have time, but I can't just overlook this. If you don't see why this is a problem I can definitely explain, but if you don't realize it already I don't think anything I can say will convince you.

Being a transgender person myself, I regularly face transphobic (and misogynist) remarks from others out in public, and I can only feel safe walking around on my own if I have my pepper spray in my hand at all times, ready to defend myself if I ever need to.

I would like to see a comment on this by the developers of the game.

If you're just going to come to this thread and make transphobic or misogynist remarks yourself, you are not welcome here and there is no point for you to do that. There are surely going to be some anyway, but this being the internet, hateful people feel entitled to spew their hateful speech wherever they go...

[Waltah]

A great game could be a prison survival simulator, where maybe the hero is a gay or transgender protaganist, wrongfully imprisoned, and has to survive through the hate, getting jumped, and the challenge is to maintain dignity between appeals, make rare friends that are tolerant throughout the system, and ultimately make it to the appeals trial that they wait 30 days for. That could be a good way to show life for someone who faces homosexual-phobia violence and threats on a daily basis to show the world the difficulty and suffering they endure and call conservative/religious bigotry into question.

However, this is not that game. I do see your frustration however. I'm not sure if Steam is the right place or not for the discussion, but I would like to ask more specifically, what about that specifically offends you, or that you find as insenstive? I've only met one openly transgender person in real life, and so I'd like to learn more (I don't want this to feel like I'm pressing you, I just want to understand where you're coming from)

Cheers for sharing your concerns with the community though! I always appreciate a positive and forward moving discussion within a game's community.

[Haze System]

I agree, a game like that could be great and could help others understand what it's like to be constantly in fear for your life and well-being for just trying to be who you are.

You are right - this game is not that. The dialog in the game is just to make the player laugh at the expense of trans people. I don't particularly like feeling, nor do other trans people, that my life and existence is a joke and that I don't deserve to live. No one on Earth deserves to feel that way.

Why those two lines of dialog are offensive is that they show a misunderstanding of how being transgender actually is, which only enables people that believe incorrect things that they are correct. The first one is pretty covert in its meaning, but the second one is not.

Transgender people don't "switch genders." For trans women and trans men, often they have identified or had feelings they were presenting as the wrong gender their entire lives. But since being transgender is still such a stigmatized thing in this society (the USA, I mean) many people are confused and afraid to allow themselves to be who they really are and want to be, and this causes many people a lot of stress, anxiety, and self-hatred. Some commit suicide because they feel they can never be happy and are forced to always hide.

This isn't the case for all trans people, and there are more trans identities than "trans man" and "trans woman". There are non-binary people, those who identity as a gender other than man or woman, so are genderfluid, where how they feel may vary from one time to the next, and may choose to present in different ways ("present" in this context means how one dresses, how they behave, how they identity themselves to others, etc.) Some people are agender, which means not identifying as any (particular) gender, and some are a third gender, which varies from culture to culture, and not all cultures have them (see Samoan fa'afafine and Neapolitan femminiello for examples.) And there's a lot more to it than that.

So, our entire lives being distilled into a joke for others to laugh at is the problem here.

Also, thank you for your non-accusatory, peaceful, and kind message. I appreciate those that are curious to learn more and don't just jump in and say transphobic things out of ignorance. :)

[Waltah]

I've revaluated my deism and became a Christian again recently. Tolerance, understanding, love, and peace must be our hallmarks before anything else in my view, so given my ignorance on the subject, I figured I'd ask. Thanks!

[Yellowwhy]

Really people this is what the devs need to change?!? you are just looking for somthing to complain about.

[Haze System]

WaltTMR, that's a great thing to do.

Also, assuming any other people see this thread, I'd like to shoot down a common and flawed argument. This usually goes along the lines of the following, adapted for this case:

"Well in prison people often make hateful remarks and insult and threaten each other. It's just an accurate portrayal of how things are."

I have not been to prison myself, fortunately (trans people are often innocent targets of police,) but that doesn't make it OK to do it in a game. Like WaltTMR suggested as a game idea above, if it were relevant to the game's story and existed to show how hurtful things like that are and that it shouldn't be done, then it would be permissible. That is not the case in this game, though. Those two lines (there may be more that I haven't come across, or maybe not) only exist to ridicule trans people and turn our lives into a joke. The only thing that does is hurts people and enables those that make the argument above to treat trans people and other oppressed minorities badly.

If you the argument in quotes above is sound, then you are likely part of the problem.

[Haze System]

Originally posted by yellowwhy:

Really people this is what the devs need to change?!? you are just looking for somthing to complain about.

Yep, this dreck is exactly what I predicted would inevitably show up in this thread. You are obviously ignorant on the subject and thus hold no ground in anything related to trans people. Your hate and prejudice is not welcome in this thread, nor will I take you seriously, so you can just refrain from writing in here or on any other trans-related thread, blogpost, or news article on the internet, at least until you understand what you are talking about.

Also, it would take a couple minutes for the devs to change or remove lines like these. There is still plenty of time left after that for them to implement new features, fix bugs, and refine existing features.

[Yellowwhy]

Originally posted by Lowena:

Originally posted by yellowwhy:

Really people this is what the devs need to change?!? you are just looking for somthing to complain about.

Yep, this dreck is exactly what I predicted would inevitably show up in this thread. You are obviously ignorant on the subject and thus hold no ground in anything related to trans people. Your hate and prejudice is not welcome in this thread, nor will I take you seriously, so you can just refrain from writing in here or on any other trans-related thread, blogpost, or news article on the internet, at least until you understand what you are talking about.

Also, it would take a couple minutes for the devs to change or remove lines like these. There is still plenty of time left after that for them to implement new features, fix bugs, and refine existing features.

Really? hateful? ignorant? i just said that it is waste of time and you were just complaing to complain... in less then 1 1/2 lines. And in the future please dont ban me from writing on "thread, blogpost, or news article "

[Haze System]

Originally posted by yellowwhy:

Really? hateful? ignorant? i just said that it is waste of time and you were just complaing to complain... in less then 1 1/2 lines. And in the future please dont ban me from writing on "thread, blogpost, or news article "

I didn't "ban" you. There is no way for me to personally bar you from spewing your hatred on the internet or in meatspace. I simply think the world would be a better place if you didn't spread your bigotry and ignorance. Same goes for all people that do such things.

Anyways, you are wrong. This game may be small, but that doesn't exempt it from propagating hatred and ignorance. All transphobia should be wiped out, but I can't do that all by myself. I posted this thread for this game specifically because I loved the idea of it and wanted to play it myself. I'm sure there are games out that I don't even know exist that include transphobic content.

Also, if you understood how trans people are treated almost every single society in the world, you would know that it's not a "waste of time". I personally don't think wanting to feel safe in this world is a waste of time. In fact, I actively try to make the world a better place for myself and others.

And like I said, it would be trivial for the developers of this game to alter or remove the lines I mentioned in my first post and any others, if there are any.

I would like to add that I am not accusing the developers of being transphobic. I have never talked to any of them nor seen what their individual beliefs and opinions are, so I don't know their reasoning behind including them, whether it was hatred or just not understanding.

[Plagued Frost]

I'm legally blind, fortunatly, I've nevver been picked on for it, but I do know that people can be ignorate about things. Here is the bottom line, lines like " So I change genders " are not always ment to point fun at transgenders. When writing something the objective of the author ( usaully ) is to convey a sense of light hearted humor ( in situations likw this ), amd not to be hurtful. It would be like if they said " I have an eye patch, are you 5 ?" or " My janitor was spanish ", I would laugh but say ***whole under my breath.

[Haze System]

Originally posted by Plagued Frost:

I'm legally blind, fortunatly, I've nevver been picked on for it, but I do know that people can be ignorate about things. Here is the bottom line, lines like " So I change genders " are not always ment to point fun at transgenders. When writing something the objective of the author ( usaully ) is to convey a sense of light hearted humor ( in situations likw this ), amd not to be hurtful. It would be like if they said " I have an eye patch, are you 5 ?" or " My janitor was spanish ", I would laugh but say ***whole under my breath.

You just contradicted yourself. You said lines like those aren't meant to poke fun at "transgenders" (not a good term to use by the way, as it is normally used by people ignorant of trans people) then say it's "to convey a sense of light hearted humor." So, according to you, it is to make fun of transgender people. There's nothing funny about being attacked, verbally and physically, for just wanting to be happy with who you are. Most trans people will face that violence multiple times in their lives, and it's not really funny.

You're allowed to find racist, ableist, transphobic, and other prejudiced things funny if you want, but I do not, nor do I believe that is a good thing to do.

[Yellowwhy]

Originally posted by Lowena:

Originally posted by yellowwhy:

Really? hateful? ignorant? i just said that it is waste of time and you were just complaing to complain... in less then 1 1/2 lines. And in the future please dont ban me from writing on "thread, blogpost, or news article "

I didn't "ban" you. There is no way for me to personally bar you from spewing your hatred on the internet or in meatspace. I simply think the world would be a better place if you didn't spread your bigotry and ignorance. Same goes for all people that do such things.

Anyways, you are wrong. This game may be small, but that doesn't exempt it from propagating hatred and ignorance. All transphobia should be wiped out, but I can't do that all by myself. I posted this thread for this game specifically because I loved the idea of it and wanted to play it myself. I'm sure there are games out that I don't even know exist that include transphobic content.

Also, if you understood how trans people are treated almost every single society in the world, you would know that it's not a "waste of time". I personally don't think wanting to feel safe in this world is a waste of time. In fact, I actively try to make the world a better place for myself and others.

And like I said, it would be trivial for the developers of this game to alter or remove the lines I mentioned in my first post and any others, if there are any.

I would like to add that I am not accusing the developers of being transphobic. I have never talked to any of them nor seen what their individual beliefs and opinions are, so I don't know their reasoning behind including them, whether it was hatred or just not understanding.

you said :

Originally posted by Lowena:

you can just refrain from writing in here or on any other trans-related thread, blogpost, or news article on the internet

now maybe "ban" wasnt rhe right word but you did tell me to refrain from just giving my opinion. i said nothing hateful nothing rude nothing wrong at all.

Originally posted by Plagued Frost:

I'm legally blind, fortunatly, I've nevver been picked on for it, but I do know that people can be ignorate about things. Here is the bottom line, lines like " So I change genders " are not always ment to point fun at transgenders. When writing something the objective of the author ( usaully ) is to convey a sense of light hearted humor ( in situations likw this ), amd not to be hurtful. It would be like if they said " I have an eye patch, are you 5 ?" or " My janitor was spanish ", I would laugh but say ***whole under my breath.

this is exactly what happned the devs thought a prinson game could be funny thats not wrong. its just how people think. but what i find so intresting is that you seem to feel guily for being a transgender...

[Haze System]

Originally posted by yellowwhy:

Originally posted by Plagued Frost:

I'm legally blind, fortunatly, I've nevver been picked on for it, but I do know that people can be ignorate about things. Here is the bottom line, lines like " So I change genders " are not always ment to point fun at transgenders. When writing something the objective of the author ( usaully ) is to convey a sense of light hearted humor ( in situations likw this ), amd not to be hurtful. It would be like if they said " I have an eye patch, are you 5 ?" or " My janitor was spanish ", I would laugh but say ***whole under my breath.

this is exactly what happned the devs thought a prinson game could be funny thats not wrong. its just how people think. but what i find so intresting is that you seem to feel guily for being a transvesite...

I feel no guilt at all. I just don't appreciate people making fun of me and people like it, and I'm not one to just sit by and let it happen. Also, I have no idea where you got the idea that I crossdress. Either you are confusing transvestites with transgender people, trying to insult me by using the wrong term, or just don't understand the difference, but I am transgender, not a crossdresser.

[Yellowwhy]

Originally posted by Lowena:

Originally posted by yellowwhy:

this is exactly what happned the devs thought a prinson game could be funny thats not wrong. its just how people think. but what i find so intresting is that you seem to feel guily for being a transgender...

I feel no guilt at all. I just don't appreciate people making fun of me and people like it, and I'm not one to just sit by and let it happen. Also, I have no idea where you got the idea that I crossdress. Either you are confusing transvestites with transgender people, trying to insult me by using the wrong term, or just don't understand the difference, but I am transgender, not a crossdresser.

really you had to lie to make a point? thats sad i did say trans gender...

[Haze System]

Originally posted by yellowwhy:

Originally posted by Lowena:

I feel no guilt at all. I just don't appreciate people making fun of me and people like it, and I'm not one to just sit by and let it happen. Also, I have no idea where you got the idea that I crossdress. Either you are confusing transvestites with transgender people, trying to insult me by using the wrong term, or just don't understand the difference, but I am transgender, not a crossdresser.

really you had to lie to make a point? thats sad i did say trans gender...

Well you had said "transvesite" (as seen in my quote of yours from above) but apparently you edited it to try and make me look like the one in the wrong here. Also, it's "transgender" not "trans gender", and "transgender" is an adjecive, not a noun, so you can't say "a transgender".

As I can see you are only here to troll I am not going to bother replying to you further.

[Yellowwhy]

ok then... please dont lie in discussions where i have said nothing mean or nasty. i see now that you are just going to lie about everything... sad