Serves you right, yes you, who bought that founder's pack

[RestInPieces]

Whose fault is it? The scammer's or the scammed's? Do you expect them not to scam you out of the goodness of their hearts? Please be more critical in your next purchase and make the market better in the process.

[Dragonlord3344]

In all fair ness SoE was legit before daybreak studio pooped all over there name. I played EQ 1 for like 10 years and loved it.

[SteGHOSTaurus]

Originally posted by Dragonlord3344:

In all fair ness SoE was legit before daybreak studio pooped all over there name. I played EQ 1 for like 10 years and loved it.

You do realise that Daybreak Studios was SoE's game studio before being sold off by SoE, right? It's not as if some random games company bought all Everquest games off of SoE. SoE sold off their game studio, half the people were laid off and, eventually, Everquest Next was cancelled.

To the OP, my sole issue is this, I paid money for Landmark as a way of showing (at the time) SoE that I was interested and invested in Everquest Next. The EQ franchise being SoE's baby didn't make me feel it was a sure thing, the videos of EQ Next's grand unveiling and the stories that were written about the lore and history of Next's Norrath. These convinced me that Next was a sure thing.

Too much time and energy went from Next to Landmark, priorities changed focus from the main game to what should have been a side project. Now we are left with the side project and nothing more.

I don't regret putting my money forward, it's always a risk when you do this kinda thing. I knew there was a chance it would fail, I assumed it was a much smaller risk but the fact that EQ Next had been scrapped twice before should have clued me in.

At the end of the day, it wasn't the backers that screwed over Next, it was the devs.

[Hamburglur]

Originally posted by Donaar:

Originally posted by OxNEOxO:

lol wot? :rennyf1:

i think they thinks this game is canceled

Hi. I came back to laugh at you now that I was proven right.

[diMaggio]

Originally posted by Big Rigs Over the Road Racing:

Hi. I came back to laugh at you now that I was proven right.

What an inspiring demonstration of character.

[Atmosph3rik]

Originally posted by Big Rigs Over the Road Racing:

Originally posted by Donaar:

i think they thinks this game is canceled

Hi. I came back to laugh at you now that I was proven right.

What exactly were you right about? I'm not seeing it...

[Donaar]

Originally posted by l'Original:

Originally posted by RestInPieces:

Whose fault is it? The scammer's or the scammed's? Do you expect them not to scam you out of the goodness of their hearts? Please be more critical in your next purchase and make the market better in the process.

Thankfully, consumer protections can apply towards this kind of "development".

If Valve doesn't do anything about this (including properly offering refunds for yet another one of their Early Access problem children) then folks can contact the appropriate agencies, like the ACCC for AU customers, the ASA and perhaps even SFO in the UK, the FTC in the US, ECC-Net in the EU.

More local agencies can also help you out, such as in the US your State Attorney General's Office if your state has laws about false advertising and misleading products (bait-and-switch). Most do, due to the ol' snake oil salesmen like so many "partners" of Valve's.

As Valve sells or does business internationally, most countries have consumer laws that can apply.

you do realise that there is an out right disclaimer on all steam early access games that makes everything you said there not apply

"Get instant access and start playing; get involved with this game as it develops.
Note: This Early Access game is not complete and may or may not change further. If you are not excited to play this game in its current state, then you should wait to see if the game progresses further in development. "

and if you click the link following this you will get this

"Is this the same as pre-purchasing a game?
No. Early Access is a full purchase of a playable game. By purchasing, you gain immediate access to download and play the game in its current form and as it evolves. You keep access to the game, even if the game later moves from Early Access into fully released.
When will these games release?
Its up to the developer to determine when they are ready to 'release'. Some developers have a concrete deadline in mind, while others will get a better sense as the development of the game progresses. You should be aware that some teams will be unable to 'finish' their game. So you should only buy an Early Access game if you are excited about playing it in its current state."

im not happy everquest next was canceled but you bought access to a alpha (or beta) version of landmark which is also still up and active just with most people using the official download from the site and not threw steam (you can do that even if you bought it threw steam). just because ya dont like the end product you took the risk that the game would go in a direction you did not like and that risk did not pay off. in the future i sugjest if you cant take a game changing befor release then dont pay for early access. i my self im dont this game (for the time being may come back sometime i tend to rotate games like that) and have moved on i sugjest you do the same the only reason i am posting here is appearently im still following this topic so i figured id reply. you agreed to steams early access terms so your out of luck just move on its just a game

so ya just do what i did people ya dont like it and are out of the refund window then submit a refund request hope for the best (some times they will refund out of the window) and move on

[Donaar]

Originally posted by Accended Supper Sayin':

Originally posted by Donaar:

i think they thinks this game is canceled

Hi. I came back to laugh at you now that I was proven right.

i dont get what your saying or should i say super saying (couldnt resist) landmark is still running so no it was not canceled so how are you right?

[Kindred Spirit]

Originally posted by Donaar:

so ya just do what i did people ya dont like it and are out of the refund window then submit a refund request hope for the best (some times they will refund out of the window) and move on

Alternatively, someone can have their country's regulating authorities have a look at what Valve is selling and see how that isn't according to their country's laws. Valve/Steam does have to follow the laws of where they sell, hence region locks and things like Steam Reviews (thank EU law) and Steam Refunds (thank AU law). It is why Digital Homicide couldn't sell games on Steam as "ECC Games" because there was a Polish company with the same name and therefore trademark laws came into play.

No matter what posted caveat Steam has it doesn't remove consumer protections, so such excuses are worthless, much like Steam's EULA is entirely a joke to actual laws.

Because of this, game development risks shouldn't be put unfairly upon the consumer in the hopes that the in-development title will arrive - that is supposedly what we pay money for in a finished product, not throw money in the hopes that a product will ever be finished or resemble what you had originally bought.

A store is not crowdfunding.

Oh, and Valve had made new rules about not counting on EA sales to support development because of that. The consumer codependency to the point of making excuses for consumer law getting crapped on wholesale just because "vidya games are special" has been getting old.

If anything, we should be looking at the problems with this model, which again puts the risks upon the customer, and how to alleviate that or allow some trust to return to the program; we shouldn't automatically treat an unfamiliar developer like they require a background check before we give them our money for a title they are selling upon Steam.

[Donaar]

Originally posted by l'Original:

Originally posted by Donaar:

so ya just do what i did people ya dont like it and are out of the refund window then submit a refund request hope for the best (some times they will refund out of the window) and move on

Alternatively, someone can have their country's regulating authorities have a look at what Valve is selling and see how that isn't according to their country's laws. Valve/Steam does have to follow the laws of where they sell, hence region locks and things like Steam Reviews (thank EU law) and Steam Refunds (thank AU law). It is why Digital Homicide couldn't sell games on Steam as "ECC Games" because there was a Polish company with the same name and therefore trademark laws came into play.

No matter what posted caveat Steam has it doesn't remove consumer protections, so such excuses are worthless, much like Steam's EULA is entirely a joke to actual laws.

Because of this, game development risks shouldn't be put unfairly upon the consumer in the hopes that the in-development title will arrive - that is supposedly what we pay money for in a finished product, not throw money in the hopes that a product will ever be finished or resemble what you had originally bought.

A store is not crowdfunding.

Oh, and Valve had made new rules about not counting on EA sales to support development because of that. The consumer codependency to the point of making excuses for consumer law getting crapped on wholesale just because "vidya games are special" has been getting old.

If anything, we should be looking at the problems with this model, which again puts the risks upon the customer, and how to alleviate that or allow some trust to return to the program; we shouldn't automatically treat an unfamiliar developer like they require a background check before we give them our money for a title they are selling upon Steam.

but steam out right states that you are buying it in its current state and that you are not garenteed any updates but if the game does you will be given them free of charge so face it they have legally covered their butts (sorry for the spelling mistakes if there are any not the best speller)

[Kindred Spirit]

Originally posted by Donaar:

but steam out right states that you are buying it in its current state and that you are not garenteed any updates but if the game does you will be given them free of charge so face it they have legally covered their butts (sorry for the spelling mistakes if there are any not the best speller)

North American, right? The old caveat sign off to the side trick again.

We have Steam Reviews and Steam Refunds because not all of the world are so horribly behind in consumer law that a merchant can so casually waive consumer rights and protections.

For a start, you can't properly see the state of the product because there is no way to really see for yourself unless playing vicariously, as screenshots/videos on Steam are often fake mockups, the developers and publishers themselves don't bother to tell you what the actual state/plans are (roadmaps are harder to find around most Early Access shovelware than a virgin in a maternity ward), and often (and lately) developers are hiding gameplay behind a 2 hour trailer-baiting gameplay design. Then indeed the game could change into something that someone didn't pay for (would seem to obligate a refund for then as they no longer have the game they bought, no?)

Just because Steam has that "warning" doesn't mean that Valve have covered themselves legally; quite the contrary, if the rest of the store page were taken into the same legal weight.

Because if we were going to head into that direction then Steam/developers would be in a whole new world of pain over the Steam tags bit, and how they are the developer's responsibility to manage (for example - No Man's Sky had multiplayer and massively multiplayer almost all the time it was on Steam!) Therefore, the Steam tags would become part of the developer's marketing and setting proper product expectations. The fake screenshots and mockup videos would be considered false advertising or bait-and-switch.

So then does that bring up possibilities of false advertisement because of applicable gameplay tags? If we want what is posted on that page to be considered "rock solid" then the sauce is applicable back upon Steam in heaping loads.

[Hawk]

Hey @OP

I'll have you know I'm proud to have lost over $400 in Founder's packages!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



YEAH TAKE THAT YOU HATER. I WANTED TO BE JIPPED, IT TURNS ME ON OH YEA~..Oh mmmmm feels sooo good..yea bby right there, oh don't stop~!


SCAM ME HARDER YES!~