How does this Hardcore party sound?

[anramses]

After playing a bit of HC gold seems to be at a premium. skills, blessings, and food are hella expensive. The party below is designed to require minimal blessing and set up so that you don't need to buy tons of extra skill points.

Frontline
Gaulen - Herbs, axes, explorer skills
Barbarian - axes, rage, learning
thief - swords and skills

Backrow
AS - bow + wounding / freezing
Paladin - auras, pole arms, wounding special attack
AS - Bow + wounding / freezing

[Enor]

Freezing from AS got seriously nerfed so you won't see much of a freeze. With no dedicated healer you're going to be spending massive amounts of potions to make up for it.

I'm assuming you were going to use the arcane soldiers to freeze lock. Not possible with the nerf. The wound stacking is good I guess. You'll probably end up getting wiped by the first group of hounds though.

[anramses]

Freezing ws from mage spells - icy touch works great. AS are there for Firestrike. Hounds shouldn't be much trouble as everyone is pretty beefy.

[da_venom]

it's a horrible setup IMHO

your lack of healing will cost you in the beginning/mid game
AS are one of the weakest classes u can pick

in your whole party there is just no synergy

and just so you know
AS/BARD/soldier are like completely useless in end game

and if you ever go a DOUBLE class then it should be 2x mage 2x DS 1mage 1x ds
there is just no sense in making 2 AS or any melee class in that department

[anramses]

İlk olarak da_venom tarafından gönderildi:

it's a horrible setup IMHO

your lack of healing will cost you in the beginning/mid game
AS are one of the weakest classes u can pick

in your whole party there is just no synergy

and just so you know
AS/BARD/soldier are like completely useless in end game

and if you ever go a DOUBLE class then it should be 2x mage 2x DS 1mage 1x ds
there is just no sense in making 2 AS or any melee class in that department

Two things - AS are bow users from backrow. In every screen shot of stats that I have seen and in all of my games - AS always significantly outdamages any other class. Firestrike is the best damage skill in the game. Essentially, every attack is a firestrike unless you are CC with Froststrike / icy touch / lightning. Plus with being bow users they can target back row. Front row is strong enough to require minimal healing. The synergy is massive damage and massive tanks.

I haven't put much effort into this party yet, but it is steamrolling through goldenwoods.

PS best god for tanks is evasion god. Makes a huge difference in early game in HC.

[da_venom]

i really wonder how the hell they would outdamage mages
i've a min max paladin and he does an average of 80 damage and he's very fast ^.^

i've played with AS before and they are squishy and furthermore since you rely on firestrike so much you are mainly using DOT

which any mage can excell that out easy
and isteamrolling beginning is pretty easy lol


just to compare mage vs AS on start

AS has a great spell yes in beginning u are low on mana and there is a big chance YOU will miss a shot furthermore the damage they do is around 7-10 then comes the burning which at that point is around 3? so if we add that all up minimal damage is around 10 and max around 13

now if we go for a mage

their firespell or stone arrow which does more damage and is easy gained and does around 15 if my memory is not mistaken. and even if it's a bit lower THEY ALWAYS hit


P.S i can be a bit mistaken on their damage values been a long time since i started a new game xD but from what i've seen MAGE>as in Damage in fact mage outdamages almost whole game

they only difference is that if a mage runs out of mana he's pretty much USELESS in combat
as for the AS he can still do some...


and on another point AS is much harder to divide their skills in that mage

mage is speed/energy and each third a con (no need for ST/AG
the AS however needs speed/ST/AG/EN with your setup

ST and ag to get a better to hit and damage
while u need energy to keep casting firestrike or whatever spells you want to use later

other than that i haven't seen a AS high level abilities

but i doubt they can beat a fireball/thunderstorm/lightning/ice ball/meteor

just to name a few
there is one user on this forum i forgot his name but that has a min max mage
he can fill u in on more details there is no way an AS outdamage a mage

[anramses]

İlk olarak da_venom tarafından gönderildi:

i really wonder how the hell they would outdamage mages
i've a min max paladin and he does an average of 80 damage and he's very fast ^.^

i've played with AS before and they are squishy and furthermore since you rely on firestrike so much you are mainly using DOT

which any mage can excell that out easy
and isteamrolling beginning is pretty easy lol


just to compare mage vs AS on start

AS has a great spell yes in beginning u are low on mana and there is a big chance YOU will miss a shot furthermore the damage they do is around 7-10 then comes the burning which at that point is around 3? so if we add that all up minimal damage is around 10 and max around 13

now if we go for a mage

their firespell or stone arrow which does more damage and is easy gained and does around 15 if my memory is not mistaken. and even if it's a bit lower THEY ALWAYS hit


P.S i can be a bit mistaken on their damage values been a long time since i started a new game xD but from what i've seen MAGE>as in Damage in fact mage outdamages almost whole game

they only difference is that if a mage runs out of mana he's pretty much USELESS in combat
as for the AS he can still do some...


and on another point AS is much harder to divide their skills in that mage

mage is speed/energy and each third a con (no need for ST/AG
the AS however needs speed/ST/AG/EN with your setup

ST and ag to get a better to hit and damage
while u need energy to keep casting firestrike or whatever spells you want to use later

other than that i haven't seen a AS high level abilities

but i doubt they can beat a fireball/thunderstorm/lightning/ice ball/meteor

just to name a few
there is one user on this forum i forgot his name but that has a min max mage
he can fill u in on more details there is no way an AS outdamage a mage

You are vastly underestimating the damage that AS can do. At level 14 on my normal playthrough, my sword AS does 25 damage, 5-10 bleed, 10-20ish fire damage plus 10-20 ish DOT for several ticks per attack hitting about 90% of the time. Due to silly high mana costs for Mage spells, AS currently destroy mages in damage especially for multiple fights between rests. Now I am not sure how prevelent FIre resistant / immune mobs are later in the game.

[Syger]

Im playing hardcore ironman atm with barbarian / soldier / gaulen / thief frontline, priest / divine summoner back row. Gaulen will be likely moving backrow bow support while the thief remains combat oriented soon. I suspect this team might be problematic endgame but i can't believe that it's less difficult than my old skool vet party from before. The biggest factor seems to be the barbarian. He soaks up so many hits that would otherwise leave my party decimated that it leads me to believe barbarian might be a must for any hardcore team unless you plan on reloading the game 8000 times. At only level 3 my barbarian has 60 hit points and still quite often dies in combat from full life which basically means hes taking enough damage that would kill 2 or more of my other teammates otherwise. This alone helps greatly, also helps that the changes to armor(defense) effectiveness have made my soldier able to withstand many hits as well since she has a relativley high defense score (38) for that point in the game. The amount of damage she takes from attacks is quite noticeably different from other members on my team with lower defense. Also like the utility of the divine summoner and priest, when things are going badly they can both play healer, and on easier fights the DS can focus more on offense. I really can't imagine the frustration this level of difficulty brings on ironman without the tankiness and healing this party has. I'm not a big fan of being completely dependant on most or all my hits to land before my party gets annihilated seconds later, so for me this is the way to go.

[da_venom]

don't try to compare NORMAL vs HC playthrough
your stats will be downed 30% and enemey mobs will have theirs rasied 30% IIRC:P