Most guides (CON/SPD) haven't figured out the mage class (DEAD WEIGHT for a big % of the game)

[peddroelm]

Resting close to 8h (or god forbid 24h) between fights costs (food) either real time waste to gather more (tedious) or in-game currency (finite resource) and should be avoided except for a few most difficult battles that unlock (area) progress/great rewards.

Quick easy fights with 0 mana consumption (pretty rare on Xulima) weaponless mage will be DEAD WEIGHT in, because he has nothing to do.

Ideally most of the remaining fights will average 7+ turns and would not cost more than (50% mana 4h sleep to recover) ;(25% even better 2h power nap).
This allows for a few special attacks, expensive (requiem/victory) bard song or a song of stun/sleep spam ..
Constrained to 50% or 25% mana use per battle mage either blows it all in the first turn and then DEAD WEIGHT for the remaining 6+ turns or does meager damage every turn DEAD WEIGHT...

The (plain obvious) solution wields a character that kicks righteous ass, on par with the other characters while also adding quite a few unique abilities to the team.
His ass kicking ability doesn't go down during the late game. (goes up with brittle armor and Victory bard song support ).

LoX's combat mechanics state that all classes (fighters, barbarians , etc ... & MAGES) weapon damage depends on the equipped weapon, STR score (and attack vs target defense) (and power strike special attack**). Which means at equal level (theoretically) similarly skilled and equipped BARBARIAN and MAGE will have the SAME* WEAPON DAMAGE OUTPUT! Their critical damage amount will be THE SAME !! Their attack speed will be the same !!!

Mage can kick the same* amount of ass in melee as Barbs or Fighters/Paladins** yet all guides I've read recommend gimping him and making him feel like a dead weight for long portions of the (late) game ..

Lets deal with the * and **

"*"

a. barbs, fighters, paladins .. etc start with more STR than mages at level 1. Couple of points of weapon damage advantage that will remain for the whole game if you don't play favorites with equipment and STR stat boots.
b. having the weapon damage is one simple thing (requirements to equip weapon and lots of STR points). APPLYING THAT DAMAGE PAST TARGET ARMOR % REDUCTION is another. While the end result is somewhat similar (+150 ATTACK from weapon skill) realistically speaking the fighters, barbs (1 skill point per level), even paladins,thieves, explorer and bards (2 skill points per level) will get there before the mage (3 skill points per level). Moreover most other classes (except barbs) have "unfair" advantages with their special weapon attacks that provide extra ATTACK and on strike effects.

There are mitigating factors that limit those disadvantages for the weapon focused mage:
- special attacks consume mana and combat classes don't get a lot of it until late game - even then 50%/25% mana use restricts special attack use for a few times per battle - the longer the battle is in turns - less overall influence of those abilities.
- Weapon damage inflicted doesn't scale infinitely with attack score. You just need to have ENOUGH ( > 3*Target Defense ) not to suffer % damage reduction. 150 from weapon skill, 15 from bard, 30+ from AGI, and special attacks will generally be good ~200 ATTACK ( good for up to 70 Monster defense). Most boss fights (princes/ witches/ guardians / giants / golems and late game demons have more than that).

High level aimed attack for those that can learn it and can spare the skill points can help pierce high target armor - other than that you're s@#$ out of luck UNLESS YOU HAVE A ''PRICELESS'' MAGE that can melt armor and allow your ALL your song of victory (synergy) sped up and hard hitting (+STR) weapon attacks do full(or close to) damage for the whole party.


"**"
Powerful Strike: Fighters and Paladins can drop a lot of extra weapon damage vs LOWLY ARMORED targets with this ability. Again somewhat mitigated by the mana usage restrictions (rest time / food consumption minimization) and the extra tricks a Mage brings to the party. Brittle armor can help Power strike do full damage vs huge hp, moderately armored (bit too much for your current party attack score) single target ..


On the weapon chance to hit issue: (abandoning guaranteed 100% spell chance to hit for weapon chance hit subject to target evasion MADNESS ?!?!?)
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We do what all the other weapon users do. We try to take target evasion out of the equation where possible (bard song of stuns, bard song of sleep , mace users ), reduce its influence where stunning is not an option by stacking wounds (wounds reduce evasion making the victim progressively easier to hit) - Mage Spell "Hammer of the destroyer" is a great way to land the first wounds on particularly dodgy targets, increasing the chance for the weapons to hit and add more after and rolling the (high chance to hit if you prioritized weapon skill above most else + bard song) dice most other times.

And of course there is always THE F#$% YOU ! I'M 360 NO SCOPE HEADSHOTING A MAGE ! option (use a cheap mana single target direct damage spell (Sparks/Flames) to kill steal snipe near dead targets across the map and save your teammates embarrassing 90% + CTH misses or worse, critical fails (hilarious on Gaulen with high level Poison Strike)).


Putting all together:

Level up attributes: (always speed) . The other attribute will have to be CON at the beginning to make sure the mage doesn't die to every damage spell that looks angrily in his direction (hound lightning is great risk factor for young mage deaths in LoX). Add some herbal/fountain supplements trough the game.
Some AGI to equip the biggest and meanest polearm money can buy and dump rest in STR.

Gear wise:

- a big +mana item will help with mana ration per battle as it helps all the other classes.
- +AGI helps you equip better weapons ,increase CTH when you roll the dice, helps bypass damage loss to armor (to a point; cannot do more than 100% damage), increases the amount of wounds applied by your polearm.
- +STR damage and will allow to carry armor to help mitigate physical damage.
- +SPD - (combat) speed is life
- +CON more HP
- occasionally appropriate resist gear for the current area/boss fight (immunity will come later with enormous skill point starvation constrains brought on by expensive weapon speck + learning + possibly perception + choice spells)

Skill Point priorities

-Maximum Learning (Lvl 8-38) (extra SPD & STR and HP and PP at high levels)
-Polearms (level 1-40+)
-Perception (in my party Thief was skill point starved with Learning,Shuriken, Sword, LockPick and Disarm Trap; Gaulen skill point starved with Axe, Learning, Knowledge of herbs and terrains).

Past that sneak in a few spells if the training budget allows (mercantilism on bard helps a bit):
-1 point sparks - leave it as it is (except book) for early game sniping
-flames to 4 + book (helps snipe ..ideal vs single wasps). Without blizzard its on the bard to handle wasp swarms (song of sleep/stun spam).
-hammer of the destroyer 4+..: don't try to max it too soon. Ideal to start wound stacking on dodgy(huge evasion), stun immune/resistant boss(lots of HP).
-magical light: increases party vision DAY & NIGHT (find "secrets" for first playtrough), stop bleeding money on torches
-end of flames 1 point wonder of convenience (+ cleric cannot extinguish fire DOT)
-incinerate air 1 point wonder of convenience
-brittle armor (stacking boss (100+ armor) killer) 5: If the weapon damage predictor indicates significant % damage loss vs huge HP target (typically bosses) - use this until predicted damage approaches maximum value
-energy absorption 5: Can this be used to shut down high hit point back line casters ? (that can't be removed via shuriken/xbow/sleep/requiem ..)

After that with remaining skill points (probably past level 40 immunity, fast reflexes ).


===============
Example party I've used him in:

Gaulen (axe 29,learning,herbs,terrains,envenomed 9 ,1 hunting + book; THEN immunity,fast reflex,armor,aimed strike(vs heavyly armored targets // immune to poison))
Thief (sword 29, shurken 29, learning, locks 29, traps 29; THEN immunity,fast reflex,armor,aimed strike (vs heavily armored targets)
Paladin (mace 29, learning, aura protection 29, divine prayer, powerful strike 9; THEN immunity, fast reflex,Bleeding Strike (vs hp wall// arena bleed and tank) meditation, armor

Bard (xbow 29, learning, song of courage/stun/sleep/requiem/victory; THEN immunity, fast reflex, meditation )
Mage (polearm 29, learning, perception 29; The choice spells ; then immunity, meditation, fast reflex)

Cleric (no WPN, CON/SPD heal/protect bot ~dead weight early until gets divine prayer + the good spells). With reasonable effort could max weapon skill/STR but later on it doesn't get the long downtimes a bard/mage would get on mana rations per combat (because of divine prayer mana regen) to trully justify it ..

[Celerity, Executor of Impunity]

You know, if you're a Mage and you have Energy Absorption you can just spam Inferno then steal the mana back. It's not terrible and certainly better than meleeing for < 100. If that's your plan do Barbarians get Polearms? Put one of them there instead. Or Soldier, I know they do.

PS: Clerics can put out fire, it's called Dispel. Can't think of any fire casters that appear before you get high resistance though.

[peddroelm]

Doesn't dispel just take everything with it ? Aura of protection/all victory bard songs/ spell resist .. etc
Better keep healing with the flame on :) ..

With some help - mages can swing for more than 100 damage on non crits eventually .. And add a ton of wounds too (via weapon). Same for Bard XBow .. (and with maxed weapons they REALLY benefit from the song of WIN (Victory) )

All he'll be missing damage wise is power-strike (which barbs don't get either). Pole-arms have a bit less damage than axes, fighter/barb/pala have a bit more starting strength...Mage and Bard also must put some CON early (depending how comfortable you are with them dying occasionally) ..but that is all (as long as you don't play favorites with gear/stat boosts)..

And you can STILL get inferno eventually if you really want it (compromise meditation/immunity) .. Probably not have mana to spam it without syphon ..
I use song stun/sleep/requiem to filter fodder .. And versus heavy hitters spamming inferno won't do much.

[Tyler Durden]

You can just put someone out with the Help option. Why waste magic for that? And yeah, Energy Absorption is for that very purpose. If I wanted another melee character I'd make another barbarian.

[Celerity, Executor of Impunity]

Dispel 1 removes everything. Dispel 2 only removes what you want. It will remove fire, webs, ice... Help will remove stuff on one person for free, I'm assuming more than one needs it.

Mage breaking 100 auto attack damage needs 82 Str + Ulnalum weapon + 55 Agi. Also max weapon (87 skill points). That's a lot of stats not going in Con or even Energy which is bad but still better.

You get 1 point cost Mediation for a reason.

[peddroelm]

Originally posted by Celerity, Executor of Impunity:

Mage breaking 100 auto attack damage needs 82 Str + Ulnalum weapon + 55 Agi. Also max weapon (87 skill points). .

Wrong. Unless you're maybe considering minimum damage *0.85 ..

above 100 with 63 STR. Even less needed if you consider maxed song of victory .

Mage is screenshoot is "defective" - too much CON not enough STR ..Also far from optimal gear.
http://i.imgur.com/JuA7TWh.png .
So even 120+ is achievable by the endgame ..


Nearing endgame I'm itching to do this on Hardcore with priest weapon focused again. Divine prayer spam (while optimal gold wise ) is tedious and engame demons drop so many "mana" potions that I end up selling. Cleric can spare the skill points, problem will be diluting the STR boosts to 6 party members and affording +STR/AGI/.. gear for all. Probably not much for cleric since she will end up using hear weapon much more infrequently than the others.

[Celerity, Executor of Impunity]

I forgot what damage spears do. Well 60 str for 101 damage which is over 100. That's 51 stat points. Meanwhile you don't actually do 100 in all common scenarios because you need 200 attack for that. You don't have max resist which you should have had long ago and you can only Inferno twice which is more damage than a basic attack. You're also quite slow (I can make a main damage character hit that speed at half that level.

Melee mage is something you can goof off with but it isn't actually very effective.

[peddroelm]

Slow ? I've added SPD at every level up :). There is no faster than that (I've used the +SPD herbs and fountains mostly on paladin cleric (+Raznet) to make sure their protections go up before the enemy gets a volley in and also to increase the rate for their divine prayer .. paladin has >100 SPD atm ) Also a gear issue (should buy him some extra SPD gear - noticed he is the slowest in the party.)

I think you're also wrong about inferno .. Most lategame enemies have at least 50% fire resistance (some are downright immune). Weapons however will do full damage after a few brittle armor casts vs almost anything ..

About attack rating his weapon skill is 27 in screen shoot - decided to try the way of the pole-arm when he was quite high level (>20) .. Add the bard song (party game) and there goes your 200 attack ratting..

Also lacking permanent STR/SPD/AGI bless in screenshot. (never finished the game yet and still don't know exactly what goes to what altar and where you get it from :) .)

Anyway I think I will abandon this veteran run (defeated the fire Giant - first giant I could find) and start HC Ironman making even the cleric weapon focused from the beginning :) .. Good times :) ..

-------------------------------------

Biggest challenges of a hybrid weapon based party will be affording +attribute gear for all 6 members .. Will be forced to play favorites ..

[Celerity, Executor of Impunity]

That's exactly my point. Offense matters more than defense. Instead of a few Brittle Armors per enemy you can cast a few Infernos and still the mana back. Yes enemies will resist, but you're still doing a few hundred damage and burn on everything not immune (and there is only one enemy type that appears when you have Inferno, is relevant, and is immune... it's a backrow caster so you won't be meleeing it much). Spells are kind of weak but a few will kill the enemy still. Especially on low difficulties.

[peddroelm]

this is for veteran/HC difficulty in mind.

The backrow demons I kill the same way I kill everything else melee them after I melee their first row meatshields.

They usually not have extra first row meathields so melt armor & kill 1 meatshield, melt armor and kill a 2 row "caster" which has no place to hide since the other meatshields are already busy protecting their own casters ..
Repeat until all demons are dead. (cleric buffs , heals and removes the more severe afflictions (bleed/wounds) ) and even sneaks in a few melee attacks when possible (few lucky misses by enemies and also towards the end of the fight when the few remaining enemies damage output significantly goes down .) From a combat expedience point of view seems wasteful to spend too many cleric turns on divine prayer since the late buffs are so mana expensive ~100 a pop..
Better use the mana potions they drop and whack them hard in melee during the "gained" turns ..

Having all 6 chars highly skilled and damaging in melee combat allows many easy fights to be won with little to no mana usage later .. (convenience). Requiem is supposed to do the same (better) but it costs mana and provides next to 0 benefits in the tough fights , whereas weapon skills help in all encounters (there are no enemies that can only be killed by spells in LoX .. wasps come somewhat close but song of stunning makes them very vulnerable to weapon damage )

[Celerity, Executor of Impunity]

"Melt armor". At 200 attack you don't need this spell.

[peddroelm]

Originally posted by Celerity, Executor of Impunity:

"Melt armor". At 200 attack you don't need this spell.

While the game interface is barbaric/archaic/primitive it does allow you to notice when your current attack is not enough to completely bypass enemy armor.

All you need to do is memorize (or simpler write down the damage numbers and STR score from your chars screen for every character, and then calculate (mentally :P) how much they go up during combat because of bard STR buff, power attack buff / - since for some perverted reason you cannot check your character doll/stats during combat ) and compare with the damage predictor . And then keep up with STR gains from lvl ups, herbs, shrines and gear changes ..

Depending on remaining target hit points and the amount of % damage loss I decide when to throw one or more brittle armors ..

Even with 200 Attack the spell has effect vs some enemies (guardians/titans/blue demons/ etc .. ) It would be VERY useful earlier in game, before you "max" your attack but sadly it is a late game skill. Learning can help getting it a bit faster ..

[dannyaic]

Gotta be honest, I’ve read through your thing about 5 times and I still have no idea why anyone would do this?

The spells you’re saying to take are absolutely useless for the type of build you’re planning.

Hammer of the destroyer - Why?? An Arcane soldier with a bow and wounding strike will land more wounds and have a decent mana pool to use them.
Incinerate air/End of flames –by the time you get the spell the scrolls are so cheap that it literally doesn’t matter. You don’t need it THAT often.
Magical Light……if you’re buying out all the torches each time, the cost is so minimal, again it doesn’t matter.
Brittle armor – Finally a decent spell, but as CELERITY pointed out you still don’t NEED it.
Energy Absoprtion – FOR WHAT? More hammer of the destroyer?

Dude, not trying to be a ♥♥♥♥ but I REALLY don’t get what you’re trying to do with this build.

[peddroelm]

@dannyaic Because mana is a very expensive commodity on mage on veteran+diff, this will give a mage with ~75% weapon damage of "melee" classes while still beeing able to provide a sprinkle of mage stuff (choice spells) ..

"When In doubt smack the problem in the head with a big mace.."

[Celerity, Executor of Impunity]

Does auto attacking do more damage than Inferno > Energy Absorption alternating? Answer: Probably not, even with the mana steal being the only slow action in the game with double the recharge time of anything else. If you're going the cast few spells route use an Arcane Soldier, for 4 mana they outdamage most Mage spells. If you're going the no spells route Soldier, Barbarian...

[peddroelm]

Originally posted by Celerity, Executor of Impunity:

Does auto attacking do more damage than Inferno > Energy Absorption alternating? Answer: Probably not, even with the mana steal being the only slow action in the game with double the recharge time of anything else...

answer vs few strong enemies (resistant to fire) YES .. Mana steal action combat delay speed is longer than weapon attack speed. (can't say how much since, this game is crap presenting mechanics information.. )
...

Anyway restarted in HC-IM mode so you can now begin to tell me what a horrible idea a weapon focused divine summoner (+ golot herald) is compared to a barbarian etc .. :) .. Barbarians can't hork money out of enemies in this game