Knowledge of Herbs

[Shadowgl00m]

Is it better to leave all herbs (that do not respawn) until you have a higher level of KoH? You get extra herbs for higher levels. The main character is at 3 KoH and he can collect 1-1.50 extra herbs.

I wonder if it's better to wait or if the limited gold and food are deterrents from doing this.

[Mike]

I was thinking that... for a real min-maxer (not me), you might want to avoid harvesting non-respawning herbs until you've bumped your skill a few levels.

I was also thinking about the limited food thing more: assuming cereal plants, which respawn every 2 days, are affected by the skill mechanic, if you eventually get your skill high enough where you collect two herbs on average from each plant, considering there're enough plants in the starter town to convert into 2 days' rations in that rate, you'd never have to buy food again. Might be nice... I'm not a huge fan of the food mechanic right now myself.

[Kordanor]

Haha, I just wrote this text 1 Minute ago in a txt file to make a new thread. ^^

While plants which give you food regrow after a couple of days, other herbs like mushrooms don't. These herbs can be used to increase your character stats permanently, so they are a big, lasting boost.
The Skill "Knowledge of Herbs" states:
"Every unit of Herbal ingredient you collect is multiplied by 1-1,17"
In this I see two issues:
1. It encourages to not collect anything at all, until you maxed out the skill. With each level it seems to add 1/6. Meaning with Level 6 you probably have a chance from 1-2. Now let's just assume you leave all herbs and collect them with lvl 12. And get up to 3 times as much as you normally get.
2. It encourages save/load scam. The skill implies that the amount you get is random, so it will probably be rolled each time you pick it up. Which then leads to saving before each mushroom, and loading until you get the full amount.

So if you want to get the maximum out of it, which should have a big impact, you just run past all the herbs you find and then come back later and save/load until you get the maximum for each herb.

My suggestion to solve this problem:
Besides of spotting "hidden" herbs the skill could decrease the amount of herbs you need to make the potions. Right now you need 10 herbs and get a random number from each pick. Instead you would need 10-30 herbs (read 10 or 20 or 30 not a random "up to") herbs and get a fixed number of herbs on each pick. Each point in this skill would decrease the amount you need by 1.
This would have exactly the same effect, you would still need to decide wether you want to make the potions right away or later. But at least it would completely remove the backtracking and save/load scamming.

[Mike]

Kordanor - excellent idea; I hope Numantium considers this! It wouldn't make the game any "easier"; it would just remove the incentive to save-scum.

[Shadowgl00m]

On that note, the cereal only gives you 1 herb. I checked every time I picked it and I never received 2. So I guess there isn't infinite food. But it does beg the question, 100g or 1 day of food?

My guess here is to never sell your herbs and just buy from the vendor. The fact that 1 day of food costs 90g at the start and you get 100g per 40 cereal prompts you to sell the cereal for a gain of 10g. This is a trap to get you into bad habits. Those 10-100g are meaningless in the long run. The food is always better. Never sell your cereal.

[Kordanor]

True, but honestly I don't see much of a problem here regarding the food. I mean yeah, these prices are off. It's more efficient to drink potions and use the temple to get healed than resting.

But imho the main problem here is the stat increase herbs.

[Mike]

Shadowgl00m - did you test the cereal harvesting with a high "Knowledge of Herbs" skill level? I know every plant - including cereal - only gives one herb when at low levels, but it's still not clear at higher skill levels (e.g. when your skill says you'd get 1-2 - or more - herbs each time you harvest).

[Andarvi]

But how much of a problem is it really?

You have to consider that if you harvest and use the stat increasing herbs early, you get more out of it.

Easy example:

Starting stat 10 + 1 = 10% increase

Late game stat.. lets say 30 + 3 ( same ammount of herbs harversed with top Knowledge of Herbs skill .. still a 10% increase.

Yes, in the end you're going to end with a higher stat, but it would probably help you more if you use it early.

[Shadowgl00m]

My skill is at 3. I had been ignoring it trying to make the main character userful in some way. It says that I should get 1-1.5 extra herbs. I reloaded the area twice and every cereal plant gave me just 1 piece. Maybe it's still too low at 3? I can test again once I get more levels.

I hate it that I am already finding ways to min-max. +3 str seems good at the start of the game but I am wondering if the % based skills are better off later. I mean, you can start with 12 str or 15. That is huge! However, tha paladin would be tearing stuff up more often had he a bigger mana pool. His strike is ridiculous and is already out damaging the mage. If he had the mages mana pool...

[Mike]

Andarvi - yes, I was thinking the same thing. But I think there are some min-maxers out there who care more about end-game stat values. Just saying.

Shadowgl00m - thanks; my suspicion is that once you get to level 6+ in the skill (or whenever it says you get 1-2+ extra herbs), you might get a chance at 2 cereals per harvest as well. (It seems the game is rounding down, so you'll never get 2 herbs when your skill only says you have a chance at 1-1.5, or even 1-1.99.) This would mean you could eventually teleport back to Velegarn and harvest the cereal field every two days, allowing you to survive without having to ever pay the goofy inflated food vendor prices. Which would be just fine by me.

[Shadowgl00m]

Makes sense but goes against the food mechanic. Why raise the prices each level if you are going to end up with the ability to harvest 2 days of food every 2 days plus the food you find? My guess is that it won't do that or they will fix it so it won't. Otherwise it makes food redundant and just an annoyance.

[Mike]

Going against the current food mechanic was exactly what I was hoping for. ;)

Seriously, if I choose to invest points in Knowledge of Herbs, then it would make perfect sense that I'm less likely to run around starving all the time due to my mad foraging skills. I'd actually be surprised if a non-linear game that claims to avoid scaling (except for things like arbitrarily increasing food prices based on player level, but I've gone on enough about that) would work any other way.

[iammichaelcarr]

I have received many multiples of other herbs except the cereal in beginning town. Only 1 every time. :( 40 can make a days worth of food but you have to have less than 1 full day and it fills the remainder back up to 1 full day.However, I have found a great way to exploit the food mechanic in my benefit. This works decent for me in Normal (Easy doesn't really need any help), though it takes some time - which I have - and slightly less money - which I don't have. It beats totally buying food outright. This tactic is used by me in a direct route. What I mean is I play in an alternate save to find where to go & where things are, then i switch to actual save and do exactly that. If I mess up my actual save I utilize this tactic for a little bit to get some food back. I haven't played HC, but I assume it would need to be played in a direct route as well with no sightseeing to avoid starving to death. Here is what I came to use so far:

#1 Knowledge of Terrains skill on Gaulen.
#2 Hunting skill on Gaulen.
#3 Know locations of food plants near towns are & quickest way to them.
#4 Using the INN.

#1 Why? - NEED a nice / large decrease in the food used when walking.
#2 Why? - NEED a slight / decent amount of food increase when walking (battles too).
#3 Why? - Duh. Preventing starvation.
#4 Why? - We use money for food in one way or another no matter what, and since the INN
doesn't use up food, but still kills the time clock for food plant respawn.

Right now 1 day of food is 100 (worthless). 2 days is 260. 1 day at INN is 140, more than 1
day of food, but less than 2. One 8 hour stay is 65. When I do buy food, I always buy 2 or more since 1 is... well... worthless. So.... how can i use this knowledge to save money and increase food?

In Velegarn, there are 2 food trees close by S exit where adventure began. There are another 2 at Velegarn beach. These net me ~30% of a whole days food (give or take). There are also smaller food shrubs. One just outside the NW exit on way to beach, and another a little ways past the Tower of Melancholy. They seem like 22~25%. Then teleport to Nabros. In Nabros there are 3 more of the food shrubs. Besides that, there are many little food plants that get around 5~10%. We'll take the low %'s for benefit of doubt. I've counted 24 for my purpose. Too many to write locations here. Just find the best route to walk and remember it.

So total that up: 4 trees + 5 shrubs + 24 plants - (minus) walking time. (4 x .30) + (5 x .20) + (24 x .05) = 3.4 & subtract roughly 1 day 10 hours ( 1.5 days) = 1.9 days of food. This tactic nets me ~ 2 full days of food give or take. AND I have already used up about 1 and 1/2 days just walking. I either stay at INN for 8 hours or I can walk back to plants and they respawn if I time it right. Try it! Let me know how it works for you!!!

-LOX

[Mike]

Inn prices are level-scaled, though. It's actually pretty easy - just somewhat tedious, which is apparently what the devs intended under the current game mechanics - to stock up on food for free, without ever resorting to staying at the inn either. Anyway, you might want to check out some other threads where this is also being discussed.

[Eraija]

I didnt gather until 25+ Worked out great. 4-5 per node.

[Sentinel 08295]

Originally posted by Eraija:

I didnt gather until 25+ Worked out great. 4-5 per node.

Dammit! Now I have to start the game over!