The Llama way - FM for purists

[Spud]

A Llama is a player who strives to play the game as realistically and as honestly as possible.

The word Llama is taken from the term 'Lower League Manager', but it goes way beyond simply starting at the bottom. It's about working your way up the greasy pole of Football Management the hard way. It's an approach to playing FM favoured by purists and it's traditions can be traced all the way back to the earliest 'ChampMan' days of this awesome series.

A brief summary of the principles that underpin the Llama way...

Games settings to most difficult (unscouted player stats hidden etc).
Start unemployed.
Lowest possible coaching qualifications.
Experience set to Sunday league footballer.
No use of 3rd party tools (tactics/scouting shortlists etc).
No editor cheating.
No save game cheating, no replaying matches until you get the results you want.
Never knowingly exploiting any bugs, glitches or AI quirks to your advantage.
Avoidance of forum topics or videos etc that may contain 'helpful' information that wouldn't normally be available to you in game.

Playing this way is a committment, a philosphy that makes the game a more challenging, authentic and therefore, in my opinion, a more rewarding experience. The removal of outside assistance increases immersion and adds credibility to any success. Winning a title or cup really does feel like an extraordinary achievement when you know you earned it the hard way, on your own steam without any help.

It's important to note that it certainly isn't about being superior to others, it has nothing to do with being 'leet', it isn't necessarily 'the way the game is meant to be played' etc. It goes without saying that everyone is free to play the game in any way they choose, that's one of the great things about this game, the many ways in which it can be approached and enjoyed, this is just another way of doing that.

Anyone else out there who plays this way? or anyone interested in trying it? Also is there anything that you feel uncomfortable doing in game and have quietly wondered if it's technically cheating? Does the thought of playing this way seem ridiculous to you? If so explain why.

Be interested to hear any thoughts you may have on the Llama ethos?

Would also like to maybe get a long term online game going with other committed Llamas, add me if you're interested.

[Steff]

I play like this quite frequently as well.

[BrnwsBucksFanNC]

This is the only way I play to be honest. But there is so much I dont know about the game that I will play a season or 2 with a team then start a new save including the things I have learned.

I have never played any of the top level teams, never made it that far. But being from USA, and never playing soccer (football) the things I dont know about the game could fill a book.

I still dont understand everything about the way contracts work in the game, but I strive to learn every time I play.

I guess some could say that I do vary from this style of playing because I start saves over, but I always do it with a different team and learn more every time I do it.

I am working on a save now, just got hired by East Fife in Scottish League 2, it took me over a year to gt hired, but I am hoping this is one I can stick with.

I would love to play online, but I am not sure how that works as well.

This is the way I play all of the sports sims I play, no one is going to hire a manager with no experience to take over Arsenal or the LA Dodgers, you have to earn it.

[Spud]

Originally posted by Steff_Fae_Larky:

I play like this quite frequently as well.

I think many others do too : )

Originally posted by BrnwsBucksFanNC:

This is the only way I play to be honest. But there is so much I dont know about the game that I will play a season or 2 with a team then start a new save including the things I have learned.

I have never played any of the top level teams, never made it that far. But being from USA, and never playing soccer (football) the things I dont know about the game could fill a book.

I still dont understand everything about the way contracts work in the game, but I strive to learn every time I play.

I guess some could say that I do vary from this style of playing because I start saves over, but I always do it with a different team and learn more every time I do it.

I am working on a save now, just got hired by East Fife in Scottish League 2, it took me over a year to gt hired, but I am hoping this is one I can stick with.

I would love to play online, but I am not sure how that works as well.

This is the way I play all of the sports sims I play, no one is going to hire a manager with no experience to take over Arsenal or the LA Dodgers, you have to earn it.

Good for you, and don't worry about starting new saves, we all do that, either after messing up really badly or just getting bored with the current game, it is only a game afterall, playing it in the right spirit is the main thing.

If you're interested I will try to get a few like minded souls together and we'll look at starting a closed online game, maybe get a teamspeak channel etc, it's always tricky finding times when everyone can play together but it's doable.

I played in a game that lasted over 3 years, there were occasional weeks and even some months where we had to skip due to one or more of us being unable to get on, but we kept it going and it was a lot of fun.There's always single player to fall back on ; )

[BrnwsBucksFanNC]

Sounds good to me. I have never played online and my one attempt at doing it didnt work so well, could never actually get to where I selected my team. But I do play other sports sims online and would love to give this game a go as well.

[ThePotatoZone]

this is such a good post, i had never really considered playing the game in this way before but im going to give it a shot now :) i generally play with portsmouth as i support them, but i think ill give a game a go with all the things you listed. Thanks for a good in depth interesting post :D

[Spud]

Originally posted by lewey t 88:

this is such a good post, i had never really considered playing the game in this way before but im going to give it a shot now :) i generally play with portsmouth as i support them, but i think ill give a game a go with all the things you listed. Thanks for a good in depth interesting post :D

That's good to hear : )

Be interested to know how you get on, there is a strong tradition of Llamas posting progress reports, in the same way strategy wargamers post AAR's, because the saves themselves have so much integrity and because any successes and failures mean that much more and contain so much authenticity they really can make for a good read.

Not a requirement but feel free to post any warts and all updates about your current career path ; )

Be nice to breathe some life into the llama community on steam.

[BrnwsBucksFanNC]

Well, once again I messed up on the freakin contracts by not making sure they were for the end of the season instead of immediate so I knew I would need to start over. My notebook on this game is getting bigger and bigger.

So I thought I would really see how far I can take this, I set it as 19 (Oh I wish to be that young again!) as a Sunday league player and no coaching experience. I decided to not express interest in any jobs until Feb 2015 and see what happened. Why do I get interviews from teams in the Vanarama conferences when I have no experience at all?

It is mid February and I got hired at Hullbridge in the Essex Senior League with a contract until June. I was actually holding out to see if Huntingdon fired their coach, lived their while in the USAF, but he kept holding on.

So let me see how this goes, a 20 year old, no experience and never been a coach taking over a team that is 2nd in the table.

[Spud]

Originally posted by BrnwsBucksFanNC:

Well, once again I messed up on the freakin contracts by not making sure they were for the end of the season instead of immediate so I knew I would need to start over. My notebook on this game is getting bigger and bigger.

So I thought I would really see how far I can take this, I set it as 19 (Oh I wish to be that young again!) as a Sunday league player and no coaching experience. I decided to not express interest in any jobs until Feb 2015 and see what happened. Why do I get interviews from teams in the Vanarama conferences when I have no experience at all?

It is mid February and I got hired at Hullbridge in the Essex Senior League with a contract until June. I was actually holding out to see if Huntingdon fired their coach, lived their while in the USAF, but he kept holding on.

So let me see how this goes, a 20 year old, no experience and never been a coach taking over a team that is 2nd in the table.

lol, nice, already your game has a storyline and narrative developing, good luck and please keep the updates coming.

[Strategos]

Yes I consider myself a Llama, and feel it is the best way to play this game. Frustrating, yes can be, but oh the joy when you earn promotion and watch your club build year after year. I have had saves that went on 8 or 9 seasons then ended after I had taken jobs in the premiership, thats too damn easy. I just do not understand people who play this game as Man Utd or any of the big clubs, no real challenge imo, but each to their own.

[BrnwsBucksFanNC]

Give you a small update. Got a payroll budget of 1.3K so was able to sign my team. Got some good coaches and scouts as well. I have played 4 matches, 3-2, 3-0, 1-2 and 1-0. Am very pleased with them. Looks like a have 2nd locked up. In the latter part of April, so not long left

[jake0123456789]

I would be honest i use to save scum in FM 2010, I won every trophy for Chelsea 5 years running 3 unbeaten seasons at the end of it i felt very unsatisfied. I was crowned the worlds greatest manager but it almost felt like i was cheating myself.

Then everything changed when FM 2011 came out. My biggest achievement by miles. Winning no trophies but getting Sheffield United into the Europa league. i was not even on the top english managers of all time list, but i felt like a winner. From FM 2011 onwards i have not reverted back to save scumming, but have played the game like a purist.

My current FM 2015 save: 4 Seasons in and just got MK Dons into the Premier League

[Spud]

Originally posted by Strategos:

Yes I consider myself a Llama, and feel it is the best way to play this game. Frustrating, yes can be, but oh the joy when you earn promotion and watch your club build year after year. I have had saves that went on 8 or 9 seasons then ended after I had taken jobs in the premiership, thats too damn easy. I just do not understand people who play this game as Man Utd or any of the big clubs, no real challenge imo, but each to their own.

True Llama. It's amazing how relatively small achievements can feel so epic, the sense of achievemment after scraping by in a relegation fight, turning a minnow into over achievers etc (in comparison to say 'yet another' Champions league success)

All my favourite saves, when I look back are the long term marathons, several seasons at the same small club or couple of clubs. I can see why some people go for the big clubs, if they support them or maybe to see if they could do better at Man Utd than Moyes etc, but those saves get really stale really quickly for me too.

Originally posted by BrnwsBucksFanNC:

Give you a small update. Got a payroll budget of 1.3K so was able to sign my team. Got some good coaches and scouts as well. I have played 4 matches, 3-2, 3-0, 1-2 and 1-0. Am very pleased with them. Looks like a have 2nd locked up. In the latter part of April, so not long left

A great start, it'll be very nice to get a promotion on your CV so quickly : ) good luck.

Originally posted by jake0123456789:

I would be honest i use to save scum in FM 2010, I won every trophy for Chelsea 5 years running 3 unbeaten seasons at the end of it i felt very unsatisfied. I was crowned the worlds greatest manager but it almost felt like i was cheating myself.

Then everything changed when FM 2011 came out. My biggest achievement by miles. Winning no trophies but getting Sheffield United into the Europa league. i was not even on the top english managers of all time list, but i felt like a winner. From FM 2011 onwards i have not reverted back to save scumming, but have played the game like a purist.

My current FM 2015 save: 4 Seasons in and just got MK Dons into the Premier League

Same here, I used to play 'Premier Manager' 1 and 2 on the Amiga, before I got into CM/FM and in that game you had to start at the bottom, then when CM came out I was like 'sweet', I could manage the top clubs from the off and I soon got into save scumming my way to glory. But it was so unsatisfying and just felt hollow, lol it's called scumming for a reason, I felt dirty afterwards, like a fraud which is exactly what I was.

It wasn't long before I knocked that bull**it on the head and got back into playing the game properly. Nothing in gaming can match the feels this series can deliver when you play it honestly and do things the hard way.

It's about the lows as much as it is about the highs, missing out on promotion again, being dragged into a relegation scrap and losing out on goal difference, it can make you almost depressed at times but it only takes one late winner, or even a result in another match between rivals to lift you to almost euphoric levels of happiness. Incredible game.

[BrnwsBucksFanNC]

someone needs to get an online game going of this. i would be willing to join.

[Rapsoulish]

I always do 3 saves, one at a top club in Europe where I'm losing interest after only 2 seasons. Then there is also the save where I build my favourite team, a top club in their league but a mediocre team in Europe with only 20% chance to get out of the group in the champions league. This game is fun as long as I'm not getting sacked, which happens almost everytime whenever I lose 3 games in a row.

And the last save is always a really bad team, without money or fans. And try to get them as far as I can get. Currently, 6 years ongoing and managed to get to the Superlig from the 5th division which is a semi professional. This is really fun to play and the only way to play for me.

The year of my last promotion was the greatest surprise for me. I was 3rd with one game to play, the 1st was 3 points ahead and had to play against the second to last team, the second was 2 points ahead and played against an upper tier club who was 5th in the league and I had to play against the 4th. The first 2 team will get promoted automatically, the places 3-6 are playing a little playoff. My team had to win with 4 goals difference and the first had to lose as well as the second. So that I can manage to get the first place. In the last 2 seasons my highest win was 3:1 and I somehow managed to get 5:2. The 1st place lost 0:2 and the 2nd place managed to get a 1:2 loss. They got the goals in the 93 and 91 minute, I was so happy so satisfied that my team managed to get to 1st place the first time in this season after playing the last game. This is the sort of things where you can feel satisfied, it doesn't even matter how hard it was.

Is there anyone willing to do an online game with me? The only important thing for me is that we have to start in the lowest league of a nation. I recently made a database, where you can start with a semi professional team in turkeys 5. league. the teams in the 5th league are all playerless. So that you can start fresh without any player and only with a Chairman.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=444951548&searchtext=

[Strategos]

I would be interested in joining a Llama league :) have not played a multiplayer league for about 6 years though so dont feel comfortable hosting.