Total War is dead, has been for years.

[Sil Halcorr]

It has been using the same tired old engine since 2009. Trying to reshape it to fit gfx capabilities of the times with no AI battle interaction improvements.

If they have not made A new one 16 years later it is time to move on to A developer who can make one.

Also one who isn't afraid of remaking and rethinking old titles because history has no where else to go.

[Sil Halcorr]

I look at Mechabellum I see promise.

[Akrotiri]

BORING POST

[Sil Halcorr]

You have no idea where I am coming from and that't quaint for a second. But look into the data

[Kendji]

The thread defies logic. TW cannot be dead if TW keeps selling (WH), it has just evolved into an different tw since.

Also an person wanting an forum poster to be entertaining sound like someone with an view of others as objects.

That said I like that game series keep trying new things and it's natural some will like the changes and some not. I cannot get into the Civ game anymore since civ4, but twp is my most played tw, I think. The other being 3K. More recently I've not been liking where the recent pdox games have been going.

But others really love the newest 'simpleton' civ games and Hoi4 vs the imo much better Hoi2.

[Fat Tony]

It has evolved into a different species at this point, would seem to be the claim.

I had expected them to still be trying to get the AI behavior, when moving full stacks on the in-battle map, to a workable state at this point a decade later. Turns out everything got worse and they lost other features on the way here as well. It's mass market, Barbie Edition approach to the core gameplay.

Pretty sure I dropped this because you can't really move your units through your own units, even if they aren't engaged. They don't have to move out of the way seamlessly like in Rome 1 but if it really isn't feasible at all then my creative ability is diminished. I don't want to overload flank every single battle as Seti (half trash and half trash-halberds). Things like false retreats didn't really affect the mechanics in Rome 1, but you could do it.

The imagination and creativity within TW was stolen by degenerate model painters, so they can ooh and ahh over their lore while being escorted within the guardrails of the Museum That Was Total War.

Pharoahs is fun. I would have loved this if it was the only TW I had as a child. Old people are jaded that the innovation drastically changed along with design priorities.

[oOIYvYIOo]

Originally posted by Sil Halcorr:

You have no idea where I am coming from and that't quaint for a second. But look into the data

Your argument should be constructed in a more direct form, because TWW has thousands of players.
The real TW, that is the Historical games, are dead yes. CA/TW killed the community that played and financed TW for years. They totally dispised all the historical clans and fans for fast money with phantasy childish games.

[JimmyTheSnake]

Unfortunately, it's very simple: Warhammer has made more money than any other rendition of total war, so everything else has been put on the back burner.

[Euridamo]

The problem is historical setting has less appeal than fantasy because faction rosters and magic. They should put more emphasys in political side of campaigns, courts, civil wars and other immersive mechanics, like real trade, loyalty, etc.
You cannot have a TW with battles like Rome 2 anymore. Fresh air is needed. More engaging campaigns and battles without health bars.

[Lotor13]

Originally posted by Fat Tony:

It has evolved into a different species at this point, would seem to be the claim.

It evolved long time ago, just compare Shogun 2 (2011) and Attila (2015)

These are mechanically completety different Total War games.

[Lotor13]

Originally posted by Euridamo:

The problem is historical setting has less appeal than fantasy because faction rosters and magic. They should put more emphasys in political side of campaigns, courts, civil wars and other immersive mechanics, like real trade, loyalty, etc.

I would say, this is exactly , what killed "historical" Total War - focus on inner-faction political mechanics (Rome2), courts, puzzle with small % modifiers etc.

Kind of minigames within the main game, and at the end, just complicated mechanics which does not work properly in practice (mentioned civil war) and does not interact with with rest of the game. Thrones of Britannia is best example.

Total War should focus to be proper tactical wargame again, not political simulator or character managment game.

These mentioned "immersive mechanics" in historical Total War since Rome 2 pushed Total War towards "hardcore players". That is another important reason, why Warhammer has more players than traditional settings

[oOIYvYIOo]

TW/CA never invested so many time and money in this childish terrible game as TW Warhammer. 10 years over the same game. What did they do with TWR 2 for example? They totally abandoned it and neglected all the clans and players. Empire? Disregarded. Napoleonic warfare? Disregarded. Medieval? Disregarded.

How is it possible? Simple. The persons that came into TW throughout the year have destroyed the game. Are totally anhistorical persons. Not to say noobs with the game. They can be artists and they are in informatic, in graphic quality, but they have always put their ego in front of historical players that have in their nature more capacity to overcome the game and know alot more of history than they. And they dont admit it and dont have the humility to recognize that TW game should be treated as a Chronicle book of History, but ingame. But this is also the result of the doctrination that human societies have being passed this last decades. History, is getting to be a third subject of study. If you dont know you dont do it.

[Shambeh-Bambeh]

I agree that it's about time they introduced a new campaign/battle AI. This current AI that got no fog of war on campaign map leads to some frustating experiences.
The AI should be fighting border wars instead of traveling on the other side of the map, just to settle some random ruins, while at the same time leaving its build up settlement unprotected.
If the AI had fog of war, it would not be doing silly things like the ones I mentioned.

They need to introduce a new AI with their next title.

[Lexter]

Originally posted by Sil Halcorr:

It has been using the same tired old engine since 2009. Trying to reshape it to fit gfx capabilities of the times with no AI battle interaction improvements.

If they have not made A new one 16 years later it is time to move on to A developer who can make one.

Also one who isn't afraid of remaking and rethinking old titles because history has no where else to go.

Troll.

[ABoxFullOfKittens]

Originally posted by Lexter:

Originally posted by Sil Halcorr:

It has been using the same tired old engine since 2009. Trying to reshape it to fit gfx capabilities of the times with no AI battle interaction improvements.

If they have not made A new one 16 years later it is time to move on to A developer who can make one.

Also one who isn't afraid of remaking and rethinking old titles because history has no where else to go.

Troll.

They've been limping along longer than that on the engine... 2009 would be generous.

[Vilela53]

I disagree! The series had a huge failure with Total War Pharaoh. But there are some good titles that have been acclaimed by fans and critics. Despite the outdated engine, I believe that if there were an Empire 2 or Medieval 3 at the moment, the complaints about the engine would be minimal.

Pharaoh is a boring and poorly produced game. I played it for a short time. There are a few interesting ideas, but nothing exciting. However, we cannot judge the entire series or even future releases based on it.

A new engine would be very welcome, but TW is what it is, there are no miracles, there is no real artificial intelligence. Just as AoE 4 is basically AoE 1 with improvements and some different features, TW 3K is basically Medieval 2 with improvements and some different features.

So much so that this engine issue does not seem to be mentioned as often in 3K or Warhammer 3 forums, as they are better games.

The freedom that W3 provides with several types of units and much more varied factions makes each faction unique, including in the battle and campaign strategy, not limited to the superficiality of some exclusive units. And that may be one of the reasons for its success. It is really not possible to use the same formation and strategy for all factions as is common in traditional historical TW. With 4 cavalry units, 2 siege weapons, 4 archers and 10 infantry units it is possible to win any battle in the campaigns of some of the most recent historical TW available and this is tiring.

Perhaps the solution for the historical segment would be to alternate between titles that cover more modern and more archaic periods of war or even that cover longer periods with technological evolution as seen in Medieval 2.

But I do not believe in any way that the historical segment of TW is dead. It just needs a good new game. Rome 2 has more players than TW Warhammer 1 and 2 combined.