Late Game / Virtue Problem

[Omega13]

Minor spoilers here so be warned:

Right now the game has an issue in that it pushes you toward having High Virtue. Minor actions like finishing deliveries or completing quests in a way that doesn't hurt you give you huge amounts of Virtue. Virtue is only removed as a punishment for doing really weird, nonsensical, and self-destructive stuff. Virtue is NOT removed for doing stuff like harvesting human flesh, which is really odd. So we have a Fallout New Vegas situation where you can just be going about your business as a normal person and end up being regarded as a holy savior of the wasteland.

The issue with this is in the main quest - near the end you are forced to make a permanent choice between Taranis or Civitas. However, this choice is gated by Virtue. If your Virtue is too high, you cannot choose Civitas. If your Virtue is too low, you cannot choose Taranis. So essentially I just wasted an entire playthrough trying to get the Civitas achievements because my virtue was capped at 25 on every character despite the fact that I never really went out of my way to be a good guy.

Not only does this demonstrate that Virtue is badly broken as a mechanic, but it also removes ALL player agency in the main story quest. Your choice is not a choice. You just do what the game tells you to do.

[Flash]

I agree.. Not the biggest of issues but it needs balancing. Right now its a risky issue since your able to keep your crew safe.

HOWEVER if your playing a game where your crew dies easily or you need to replace them with new crew, you will find that raising virtue quickly and with all given means is a godsend since it messes with your acceptance into cities or some events (Since Crew Virtue is average of crew's stats)

Im just waiting to see what additional features they add and difficulties in future maps and how it affects stats like this

[money3030]

🤔 how about uh we make Gimp mask (Supposed to be Balaclava/Ski Mask but eh) make everone have Zero Virtue while equipped and call it a day? It's funny seeing it only reduces it by a Tiny amount anyway.

Well Harvesting Human fleshy or Infected Fleshy won't be that bad. (Think Scientific Sample) However cooking and eating it should give you the Virtue Penalty instead of just harvesting.

[frumple]

Your character is your truck.

Kick everyone out of the crew. Hire a low Virtue hoodlum. Kick the remaining good guy.
Now hire more bad guys.

Virtue: rekt.


As for human flesh, it's called long pig for a reason, and it's also perfectly sensible because it's chiefly used as bait or distraction.

[money3030]

Originally posted by frumple:

Your character is your truck.

Kick everyone out of the crew. Hire a low Virtue hoodlum. Kick the remaining good guy.
Now hire more bad guys.

Virtue: rekt.


As for human flesh, it's called long pig for a reason, and it's also perfectly sensible because it's chiefly used as bait or distraction.

Unless it's Custom Character.

Gimp mask change would be a good easy solution if it literally makes the wearer Zero Virtue. (Would be one easy mod)

[Omega13]

Originally posted by frumple:

Your character is your truck.

Kick everyone out of the crew. Hire a low Virtue hoodlum. Kick the remaining good guy.
Now hire more bad guys.

Virtue: rekt.

This is an unwieldy and undesirable solution. The problem remains.

Not to mention, this game kind of promotes itself as a storytelling game. Remember your favorite book where in the final chapter, the author just said "♥♥♥♥ it" and introduced an entirely new cast of characters because he was bored with the old ones?

No. Just no. A broken solution for a broken system.

Originally posted by frumple:

As for human flesh, it's called long pig for a reason, and it's also perfectly sensible because it's chiefly used as bait or distraction.

Anyone who would, with a straight face, argue that chopping another human being into edible meat (not even a zombie, a human) is void any sort of moral compromise is someone with something terrible in their basement.

You lose virtue in this game for raising your voice to an old lady. I think that chopping someone into spam is quite a bit worse by any realistic measure.

[frumple]

The game right away tells you the main character is the truck. Truck's hitpoints must never reach 0, or else the game is over.
It's the focal point of the entire game. All gameplay revolves around it.
Most of the crew is not known at the start. And everyone including the starting character can die, except the truck.

Playing Hero mode is an alternate way to play, and that's fine. You can choose that option.


The system is not broken any more than you wanting to grab two opposite achievements in the same run.

I offered you a solution and you complain it's hackneyed but that's your problem.
Don't have a go at me just because you wasted a run.

[Flash]

Originally posted by Omega13:

Originally posted by frumple:

Your character is your truck.

Kick everyone out of the crew. Hire a low Virtue hoodlum. Kick the remaining good guy.
Now hire more bad guys.

Virtue: rekt.

This is an unwieldy and undesirable solution. The problem remains.

Not to mention, this game kind of promotes itself as a storytelling game. Remember your favorite book where in the final chapter, the author just said "♥♥♥♥ it" and introduced an entirely new cast of characters because he was bored with the old ones?

No. Just no. A broken solution for a broken system.

Originally posted by frumple:

As for human flesh, it's called long pig for a reason, and it's also perfectly sensible because it's chiefly used as bait or distraction.

Anyone who would, with a straight face, argue that chopping another human being into edible meat (not even a zombie, a human) is void any sort of moral compromise is someone with something terrible in their basement.

You lose virtue in this game for raising your voice to an old lady. I think that chopping someone into spam is quite a bit worse by any realistic measure.

I dont want to sound like that guy. But IGNORE Frumple's discussions. It is always a 'I am right' sort of answer and his answers are usually quite dumb.

1.Human flesh is called long pig so its sensible? America and Europe are not the center of the world. Go outside and learn about other people and cultures before you start talking about BS words that noone else uses (or in a small minority). Its sensible? ROFL

2. No. Your truck is not your main character. You can play Hero mode as well. Another USELESS ARGUMENT for some USELESS LOGIC that noone cares about to say that the game is BALANCED. NOONE cares about your balance claims. We are here to DISCUSS game balance with virtue growth as a constant

3. Kick all your crew and virtue rekt? How is this a solution to the situation posted by the OP. I wish there was a 'Throw comment' option for the OP of a thread so they can throw USELESS garbage like this.

He is a troll imo... Something isnt balanced so the solution is to screw yourself over on purpose? 0 Intelligence comments and he has most of the community marked as against him telling them their having a 'go at him' XD

[frumple]

Grow up, or use the damn ignore button.

1. I have no idea what you're talking about. What center of the universe?

The complaint was about choping up human flesh, but there is no such thing in the game, i don't think. Only infected, and they're mindless zombies that will kill you instantly. They cannot be considered human.

You can only get "human flesh" after fighting the infected. If you harvest it, you can use it as bait to help you escape a difficult encounter.

It's sensible to do so. Maybe your universe is different.

2. I know you can play hero mode, i said so. That's the alternative mode, the non-alternative mode is the Truck is hero mode.
In this mode, whether you want to call it normal or not, the truck must be kept alive and all crew can die including the starting character.
You know this.

3. The problem was the crew gained high Virtue and that wasn't part of OP's plans or to his liking. So i suggested he replace the crew.
He can do that unless he's playing Hero mode, and if he is, he can tank his Virtue more easily without a high Virtue crew.

Again, you know this.
From a storytelling point of view, it is an unwieldy solution, but from the same point of view, chasing an achievement is equally out of place.
But that's not for me to decide, i just suggested a way out.


It's rich you keep calling me a troll and you are the guy that thinks the game should be played his way and his way only.
You don't want to reason, you don't want to discuss, you don't want to or can't offer arguments.
But call me a troll, by all means.

I don't bother to reply to you and i've told you so already.

[Flash]

Originally posted by frumple:

Grow up, or use the damn ignore button.

1. I have no idea what you're talking about. What center of the universe?

The complaint was about choping up human flesh, but there is no such thing in the game, i don't think. Only infected, and they're mindless zombies that will kill you instantly. They cannot be considered human.

You can only get "human flesh" after fighting the infected. If you harvest it, you can use it as bait to help you escape a difficult encounter.

It's sensible to do so. Maybe your universe is different.

-->> WRONG. You can only get human flesh after fighting bandits or faction soldiers. You get infected meat after fighting zombies. If you OPENED your EYES more in the game instead of making ULTIMATUMS, maybe you would learn the game before making such claims. THERE IS NO EVENT/SITUATION where you get HUMAN FLESH from zombies.
SO... you are chopping up human beings.

2. I know you can play hero mode, i said so. That's the alternative mode, the non-
In this mode, whether you want to call it normal or not, the truck must be kept alive ...

-->> And this is a solution to a virtue discussion? Who the hell cares about whether the truck is the hero or not? Why are you wasting people's time with unnecessary garbage? Noone cares about this comment of urs

3. The problem was the crew gained high Virtue and that wasn't part of OP's plans or
.....
Again, you know this.
But that's not for me to decide, i just suggested a way out.

-->> You die eventually when you breathe oxygen.. Why not just do it now? THIS IS YOUR LOGIC... As stupid as ever.
THE OP DID NOT ASK FOR STUPID RESPONSES JUST TO LOWER VIRTUE. He asked for a solution/balance since everything in the game leads to virtue gain and that WE NEED EVENTS AND MORE CONSEQUENCES that reduce virtue.. like if we get -ve virtue for kicking the old woman, why not lower virtue for chopping human flesh or infected meat since its disgusting... the fact that your even suggesting this is sensible and okay regardless of human or zombie is disgusting and NOT OKAY. We are just ignoring it since its the current mechanic.

OPEN YOUR EYES AND READ. DID OP SAY HE DOING FOR ACHIEVEMENT? Did you first ask the OP if they asking for achievements? Nope.. you just went on your own rant telling him to kill his crew and replace them... rofl...


4. It's rich you keep calling me a troll and you are the guy that thinks the game should be played his way and his way only.
You don't want to reason, you don't want to discuss, you don't want to or can't offer arguments.
But call me a troll, by all means.

I don't bother to reply to you and i've told you so already.

-->> Nope. EVERY thread you comment to the OP saying their having a 'go at you'. At this point if your too stubborn to understand who is being a troll, your incurable. I told you to stop ultimatums and atleast confirm confusions before giving a solution but you jump onto every thread to say 'The game is balanced, you are wrong' and now getting smashed by the OP and commentors. I'll give you one thing.. your are a persistent troll

Also, if you dont bother to reply to me, then this response of yours is weirdly out of place. Whats with the 'You know this' comment in every statement? Do you know whats the topic of conversation here? You seem to be the only clueless guy here XD

[CMDR MRMAURICE (Moz)]

Originally posted by Flash:

Originally posted by frumple:

Grow up, or use the damn ignore button.

1. I have no idea what you're talking about. What center of the universe?

The complaint was about choping up human flesh, but there is no such thing in the game, i don't think. Only infected, and they're mindless zombies that will kill you instantly. They cannot be considered human.

You can only get "human flesh" after fighting the infected. If you harvest it, you can use it as bait to help you escape a difficult encounter.

It's sensible to do so. Maybe your universe is different.

-->> WRONG. You can only get human flesh after fighting bandits or faction soldiers. You get infected meat after fighting zombies. If you OPENED your EYES more in the game instead of making ULTIMATUMS, maybe you would learn the game before making such claims. THERE IS NO EVENT/SITUATION where you get HUMAN FLESH from zombies.
SO... you are chopping up human beings.

2. I know you can play hero mode, i said so. That's the alternative mode, the non-
In this mode, whether you want to call it normal or not, the truck must be kept alive ...

-->> And this is a solution to a virtue discussion? Who the hell cares about whether the truck is the hero or not? Why are you wasting people's time with unnecessary garbage? Noone cares about this comment of urs

3. The problem was the crew gained high Virtue and that wasn't part of OP's plans or
.....
Again, you know this.
But that's not for me to decide, i just suggested a way out.

-->> You die eventually when you breathe oxygen.. Why not just do it now? THIS IS YOUR LOGIC... As stupid as ever.
THE OP DID NOT ASK FOR STUPID RESPONSES JUST TO LOWER VIRTUE. He asked for a solution/balance since everything in the game leads to virtue gain and that WE NEED EVENTS AND MORE CONSEQUENCES that reduce virtue.. like if we get -ve virtue for kicking the old woman, why not lower virtue for chopping human flesh or infected meat since its disgusting... the fact that your even suggesting this is sensible and okay regardless of human or zombie is disgusting and NOT OKAY. We are just ignoring it since its the current mechanic.

OPEN YOUR EYES AND READ. DID OP SAY HE DOING FOR ACHIEVEMENT? Did you first ask the OP if they asking for achievements? Nope.. you just went on your own rant telling him to kill his crew and replace them... rofl...


4. It's rich you keep calling me a troll and you are the guy that thinks the game should be played his way and his way only.
You don't want to reason, you don't want to discuss, you don't want to or can't offer arguments.
But call me a troll, by all means.

I don't bother to reply to you and i've told you so already.

-->> Nope. EVERY thread you comment to the OP saying their having a 'go at you'. At this point if your too stubborn to understand who is being a troll, your incurable. I told you to stop ultimatums and atleast confirm confusions before giving a solution but you jump onto every thread to say 'The game is balanced, you are wrong' and now getting smashed by the OP and commentors. I'll give you one thing.. your are a persistent troll

Also, if you dont bother to reply to me, then this response of yours is weirdly out of place. Whats with the 'You know this' comment in every statement? Do you know whats the topic of conversation here? You seem to be the only clueless guy here XD

Dude, you're the ass here btw. Your responses are just wild. You need to chill a little. You do come across as a troll

[Flash]

Originally posted by CMDR MRMAURICE (Moz):

Dude, you're the ass here btw. Your responses are just wild. You need to chill a little. You do come across as a troll

Stop taking a comment thread mid way and making your own quotes about it. These are comments against a user hating on every thread.

Also I am seeing your white knight supporter comments for this user in every thread at once. Alt account?? XD ...

[CMDR MRMAURICE (Moz)]

Originally posted by Flash:

Originally posted by CMDR MRMAURICE (Moz):

Dude, you're the ass here btw. Your responses are just wild. You need to chill a little. You do come across as a troll

Stop taking a comment thread mid way and making your own quotes about it. These are comments against a user hating on every thread.

Also I am seeing your white knight supporter comments for this user in every thread at once. Alt account?? XD ...

Firstly, discussions are open to ANYONE to comment.

Secondly, stop trying to be edgy, its cringe.

You aren't open to any form of discussions, you give an opinion and thats that. EVERY comment you make is some BS strawman or telling others how the game should be played according to you. So edgy dude

Alt account? My account isn't private, obviously not an alt account. smh so edgy

You have 2k+ hours on PZ and gave it a negative review lmao! Yea, you're one of those people

[kaiserp]

just for the records:

Doesent failing a Delivery lower your crew Virtue by 2 ?

[Flash]

Originally posted by kaiserp:

just for the records:

Doesent failing a Delivery lower your crew Virtue by 2 ?

yup

[Flash]

Originally posted by CMDR MRMAURICE (Moz):

Firstly, discussions are open to ANYONE to comment.

Secondly, stop trying to be edgy, its cringe.

You aren't open to any form of discussions, you give an opinion and thats that. EVERY comment you make is some BS strawman or telling others how the game should be played according to you. So edgy dude

Alt account? My account isn't private, obviously not an alt account. smh so edgy

You have 2k+ hours on PZ and gave it a negative review lmao! Yea, you're one of those people

1. Your trying to defend the one guy that does not accept anyone's opinion while telling me that im not doing so. Do u really read what I say before spouting nonsense? XD

2. Edgy? What does this even mean in this context? I respond to people asking for help

3. You are a prowler. You have not given any constructive comments in ANY thread here yet you come to protect some guy randomly spouting the exact nonsense that people are trying to get this guy frumple and other stubborn 'I am right' folk to understand. How stupid are you? Please quote a comment of mine where I claim nothing else is possible.. Can you? Whats this BS about no proof, facts etc? You keep saying this like a dumb moron but my comments have proof and scenarios in them. Its why their usually large responses

4. Again with the edgy. Projecting your own problems onto others much?

5. This shows how unethically pathetic a sort of person you are. You need to stalk a person's profile to try to discredit them because you lack any solid argument to make yourself. Disgusting.


If a 2k+ hours player of project zomboid is giving a negative review then an intelligent person would understand that there was a legitimate issue there. One of 'Those people'? Explain this pls. Discriminatory much? :)

You have not provided any constructive answer or opinion here, you have not shown any presence till now. And now your arguing over ethics? Rofl..