Treasure System and Master Class

[Bladewind]

With how the current treasure system has a level restriction or lock behind bosses... It doesn't feel like I can just sit in and roll with whatever heroes that synergize with each other... Rather, it needs detail planning and checking loot level/boss loot collision before I can launch an expedition. It feels rather counter intuitive.

[IchigoMait]

You have to do that in Vampire Survivors for the most optimal build depending on what map you start and what hero you choose, unless you're already so op that it doesn't matter anymore.

In here, there is nothing to plan for before the fight, most treasures are level locked, so you get them when you reach that level, nothing else to it, and some are random drops from the bosses.
The only planning you do is when you get a choice, but mostly it doesn't matter, you just want to reroll items till you get the most stats for your characters, until you run out of seeds and gold, or optimize for at least 3 stats, so that you don't end up getting only 2 or 1 stat.

But yeah because of things being level locked, you're also "locked" behind certain heroes that get you the furthest, but ironically hero specific skills aren't locked behind heroes, you can't control anything, so you just get the best heroes and find the best seed, finding the best seed is your only preplanning, besides what treasures to unlock as you maybe don't want some treasures in a run, it would be nice if we could lock purposely certain stuff.

So to summarize the only preplanning you do is, choosing your seed, and what stuff to unlock with gems. Everything else is level dependant and random loot choice, and random extra party members, with villagers you can at least control specifically what heroes you want.

[Bladewind]

Loot is not as random as you think.

Boss drop is always the same. First boss will always drop Apple, Bacon, Bread. So if you have trainer, servant, and/or singer together, only one of them can hit master since you can only trigger it once per run. This affects the first 6 waves of boss drop, which are needed to master various classes.

Non-boss loots also have level restriction. For example, if you don't max out the Lightning Rune Stone for Sage by lv15, you will no longer be able to do so. Loot tiers are 1-15, 5-20, etc. Each band is usually 10 or 15 levels. While you don't need max tier for master.... maxing it out greatly increases the treasure's effectiveness since the last tier offers a big jump and usually double in stats from the previous tier.

Since you can have up to 7 heroes... If you do not plan for it, you can have multiple classes fighting for the same loot tier.

[Lune]

Originally posted by Bladewind:

Loot is not as random as you think.

Boss drop is always the same. First boss will always drop Apple, Bacon, Bread. So if you have trainer, servant, and/or singer together, only one of them can hit master since you can only trigger it once per run. This affects the first 6 waves of boss drop, which are needed to master various classes.

Non-boss loots also have level restriction. For example, if you don't max out the Lightning Rune Stone for Sage by lv15, you will no longer be able to do so. Loot tiers are 1-15, 5-20, etc. Each band is usually 10 or 15 levels. While you don't need max tier for master.... maxing it out greatly increases the treasure's effectiveness since the last tier offers a big jump and usually double in stats from the previous tier.

Since you can have up to 7 heroes... If you do not plan for it, you can have multiple classes fighting for the same loot tier.

Thanks for this info it's actually helped me get as much all but two of my heroes to master class. As for the restrictions... I hope the DEV's implement some sort of way to acquire these one time per run items. I would like to be able to have a master singer along with a maid or musician, ect ect ect....

[fodder]

they should really display the level range of treasures everywhere (treasure choice screen, party info screen - both the treasure section and the hero section, etc)

[Bladewind]

IMO, they need to add an in-game party and loot build calculator...
Seed 777777 has a quest that wants 4 Wisdom party members, for example.

If want want to max the relic, had to go with:
Cat
Servant
Cleric
Sage
Tamer
Black Mage
Marionette

Because you already start at lv1, you can only take 2 class requiring Lv1-15 relics.
Or one Lv1-15 and two lv5-20.

Class like Blue Mage that requires 13 levels worth of gear, 8 of which between lv45-60 (where all the final upgrade gear is) to get Divine Anchor (5) and Glacier Hearth (3) is a bandwidth hog and terrible party fit.

Marionette, on the other hand, only require 3 levels... Can't we balance the gears better?

[Asakura Shinichi]

Originally posted by IchigoMait:

You have to do that in Vampire Survivors for the most optimal build depending on what map you start and what hero you choose, unless you're already so op that it doesn't matter anymore.

Yeah no, at no point you need "optimal builds", in Vampire Survivors you can literally make runs where you dont even move and still beat 30 minutes. You can also take whatever you want to make a crazy cool build and when you unlock overdrive you dont even need to select anything just let random selection on and you still can easy beat 30 minutes. Vampire Survivors needs no planning ahead, just simple fun since it even gives you a grimoire to check what you need to evolve the weapons.

In this game you neither have banish nor something like the grimoire from Vampire Survivors. Vampire Survivors is still fun after 100 hours, this game loses all its charm after 10 hours cause you cant do any builds because master classing rely on pure luck and memorizing of 100+ treasures and 28 classes.