Way to overpriced?

[Adiannon]

The game is basically a cheap ass version of a Dating Sim with almost no freedom whatsoever. How can this be listed for € 20?

Anyone agree with this?

[ScarletEmerald]

Yes. Fun game, but pretty shallow. I would say not worth more than $5 or so.

[BucklandRPG]

Winter wolves is commonly known for perceived overpriced English otome games. Japanese... well its a larger market there so what WW asks is comparible.

The developer is shrewd in business for an indie. They went transparent with the pricing logic in 2012:
http://www.winterwolves.net/blog/2012/05/becausewemay-sale-and-game-prices/
They acknowledge that the English market may see sticker shock from the product.

In the end they are a business looking to turn a profit. What gets me is that they went as far as to say "Unless I get my games on a big portal like Steam, I have really no means to lower prices if I want to keep making more games in future." http://www.winterwolves.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=2665

Now the games are on Steam. The prices appear the same, promotions aside, which is the same marketing tactic they use in the monthly newsletters.

[lys_xen]

The Steam versions are cheaper ragnar21583.

For example, Spirited Heart Deluxe on Steam would normally be $19.99, but if you were to buy the equivalent (girl and boy romances) from the dev's site, then it would be $29.99 for the Deluxe version (if you buy both at once, you get a slight discount).

Loren and its expansion is $24.99 on Steam, but the same price on Winter Wolves site is $34.99

Planet Stronghold Deluxe on Steam is $19.99 while the Winter Wolves' price is $24.99.

So, the Steam version is definitely cheaper, though the price savings may vary.

[FlamboyantMongoose]

i just wandered in here randomly but will point out that astebreed comes out tomorrow also at $20
guess which one is significantly more worth the $20

[Lavian]

To point it out, having too low of a price can turn out really bad. When a niche product has an "impulse buy" price range, it runs the risk of getting a bunch of people that buy it, hate it, and then complain on the forums about how "bad" the game is since they don't like the particular niche it fills (but they didn't know that before buying it).

In any case, I have no opinions about this particular title since I haven't played it. Paying $20 for stat growth an management games in general doesn't seem too bad to me though.

[Merry]

I want hentai-scene's for this price

[Somnia]

Originally posted by Lavian:

To point it out, having too low of a price can turn out really bad. When a niche product has an "impulse buy" price range, it runs the risk of getting a bunch of people that buy it, hate it, and then complain on the forums about how "bad" the game is since they don't like the particular niche it fills (but they didn't know that before buying it).

I don't believe this is a big factor in these kind of games. Even at half price, this game would barely sell to people who aren't genuinely interested in it.

[Terhial]

I was looking for this thread. I admit to being very curious about the Dev's pricing on Steam. I've been watching this one for awhile, and Kelso is pretty good about explaining how he's done things. Ragnar21583's link is a good example.

I do, personally, find WinterWolves games feeling expensive compared to similar titles that I often encounter, especially his earlier titles, like Spirited Heart. But his sales data and experience say that lower prices haven't generated more revenue for him. On top of this, he's not shy about contracting for his work for a better quality product on his newer games. He's a solo dev, so the only cost savings he gets on development costs are what he's willing to do, not what he and other dev assets are willing to do. If he manages to score a deal for still quality work on a contract.

Also, a pricing factor is the cost of living and local business expenses in a first world Europeon country, and exchange rates make the U.S. dollar weak enough to probably be factored into his price points. 1.36 dollars to a Euro. The dollar is at a two month high. (May 28th, 2014) I believe it was around 1.5/1.6 for a long time. That makes his price points weaker on his end than it seems to an American.

Despite the relativly expensive nature of his games, I keep buying them. I've never delved deep into the VN VN/Rpg genre, but they tend to be some of the most expensive titles on the small deve / indie scene, likely indicating that genre fans find higher prices for the titles acceptable. And while there was a decent vocal amount of disagreement on Steam, I found Loren: The Amazon Princess to be a more then respectable RPG title, with a cast and characteriztion that was of a quality I rarely encountered, even in the (pre Kickstarter revitalizing higher budget genre prolifications) more robust mid to late 90's PC RPG market.

I'll note that Kelso does offer sales fairly regularly, and it's been worthwhile to keep an eye on his blog for them. He's also offering Steam codes to people who bought the games beforehand, neglecting the potential extra revenue from redundant buyers willing to buy on sale for library redundancy, or pay again just to have their catalog all on their most used service. Probably not a lot of money there, but you have to make the choice to give out the keys.

As to his titles on Steam, the model might be different, but it's working vs the model that has been profitable all this time. Pricing at the familiar Steam prices for his games is a risk compared to his existing, working model. It's a serious revenue risk for him, and there's other specialty dev's that have found that they are niche enough on their genre to rarely generate extra sales from lower baseline prices. Cliffski, of Gratuitous Space Battles, has several[positech.co.uk] posts[positech.co.uk] about this, citing his experience with pricing his niche genre titles.

What I'm going to be waiting for is the day Kelso runs a deep discount on Steam. Whether it's on a single, hopefully newer, higher quality title, or with a catalog sale. The Steam Sale effect on his game library and upcoming titles will be a fun new thing for me to follow when it happens, and I hope he writes about it on his blog.

TL/DR: I got nothing for you. I made too many points and summarizing feels like a lot of extra work on top of what I've already put in. Plus, even this comment might be too long for you folks.

[Winter Wolves]

I did lot of research, spoke to indies like Cliff who is a long time friend, etc. If you see other games like mine priced lower, is from people who didn't do their homework. See Dischan, they sold their game for $5 and almost went bankrupt and had to do a Kickstarter to get funds for the next episodes.

That said, of course for older/smaller titles will price lower. Heileen 1 will probably be $5 since is a very old game and much simpler compared to my recent ones.

BTW I made already a Loren big sale last month (weeklong sale 50% off), and I will take part on the Summer/other Steam sales too. So all those discussion about "high price "are a bit pointless because if you wait you'll get the game cheaper anyway :)

[heime2003]

i, too, thought games from winter wolves were a bit expensive
but i understand he needs to feed himself and family and money to keep making other games
unless i hit huge jackpot, i will look for deals in other sites

[Sotj]

-15% off but still seems too expensive for this kind of game. If it was like -75% then I would try this.

[puppychow]

I would settle for a 50% off sale.

[Pangolin Legends: Arceus]

Originally posted by Lavian:

To point it out, having too low of a price can turn out really bad. When a niche product has an "impulse buy" price range, it runs the risk of getting a bunch of people that buy it, hate it, and then complain on the forums about how "bad" the game is since they don't like the particular niche it fills (but they didn't know that before buying it).

Well this game was in a bundle for next to nothing and then gave a steam key so...

[NinjaPlease]

Originally posted by Winter Wolves:

I did lot of research, spoke to indies like Cliff who is a long time friend, etc. If you see other games like mine priced lower, is from people who didn't do their homework. See Dischan, they sold their game for $5 and almost went bankrupt and had to do a Kickstarter to get funds for the next episodes.

That said, of course for older/smaller titles will price lower. Heileen 1 will probably be $5 since is a very old game and much simpler compared to my recent ones.

BTW I made already a Loren big sale last month (weeklong sale 50% off), and I will take part on the Summer/other Steam sales too. So all those discussion about "high price "are a bit pointless because if you wait you'll get the game cheaper anyway :)

Then he's just bad at managing his budget if that's the case. If what you're saying is accurate, then why does this game cost as much as/more than at times the cost to pick up either of the Agarest games??? To be blunt, that rings awfully hollow. Also, as someone who is all for someone making a profit, the profit margin aspect.... having 2.5x the sales with half the price point rate might be worth noting. I'm thinking if this other developer was actively placing ti's products on Steam I might give them a buy in or two if they were at a sub $10 price point.

But again, you're moving a "niche" product, rather than a open ended rpg.... which to be blunt only further confuses me on the price point.

Was interested in what the deal is on the game, but to be blunt it looks like it's not really what I'd be interested in anyhow. If you put out a traditional Japanese style dating sim maybe I'll take a peek at you guys.

Regardless, no ill will on my end, I find the berating on the basis of the costs put into the work for a game of this grouping a bit odd and wanted to say it came across a bit lacking in consistency with price points of other indie titles...

[Murder Bunny The Battle Rabbit]

Originally posted by Winter Wolves:

I did lot of research, spoke to indies like Cliff who is a long time friend, etc. If you see other games like mine priced lower, is from people who didn't do their homework. See Dischan, they sold their game for $5 and almost went bankrupt and had to do a Kickstarter to get funds for the next episodes.

That said, of course for older/smaller titles will price lower. Heileen 1 will probably be $5 since is a very old game and much simpler compared to my recent ones.

BTW I made already a Loren big sale last month (weeklong sale 50% off), and I will take part on the Summer/other Steam sales too. So all those discussion about "high price "are a bit pointless because if you wait you'll get the game cheaper anyway :)

Winter Wolves is right, people will pay what they want to pay, at the end of the day I like these kind of games and have all of them on my wish list for later when they are at a price I am willing/able to justify.
After it hits my threshold for purchase, I check my funds and if finances allow it buy the game/s thats why my wish list is 200+ strong :P