Qaahl and Murkan's buffs

[Phantaeon]

So as most of us know Qaahl and Murkan's buffs just change your starting weapon. Which to me seems like it's basically going in without Deity buff because you can switch ( And you're very likely to ) weapons really early on in shops. It kinda feels a bit unfair. Especially considering Qaahl's amazing monsters. Chz also starts with an item but his isn't removable and fish deity dude starts with an upgraded monster which is a far better buff then a different starter weapon so it is a good buff. Anyways here are some other ideas for possible buffs for them.

Murkan: Could start with an item that allows it to always have a gold steal chance or just have a speed buff.

Qaahl: Ability to see the special room icons ( Like Blacksmith ) even when they're undiscovered. They won't be shown anymore when he dies assuming the other player isn't Qaahl or the room already got discovered. Or a Ranged damage buff.

What do you think?

[Nasty Peep]

Originally posted by Phantaeon:

Qaahl: Ability to see the special room icons ( Like Blacksmith ) even when they're undiscovered. They won't be shown anymore when he dies assuming the other player isn't Qaahl or the room already got discovered. Or a Ranged damage buff.

That doesn't seem terribly exciting though. You can always teleport to the blacksmith or discover it on your own, which usually doesn't take long since maps are tiny. The starting weapon perks just give you an instant headstart.

[Mirkali]

Well, at the end of the day... all the deities grant "items", or abilities comparable to items.

• Teak: +1 Monster Health, which can be gained via a potion that is.... 30gp I think?
  
• Murkan: Thieving Knife, How much is that worth?
  
• Gholoth: +25% trap damage, which the comparable item to that I think is the Dwarven Cog, Which is 30gp I think?
  
• S'hrim: 10% Store discount, which is the same as the Lucky Potion, which goes for 10gp I think.
  
• Qaahl: Cracked Bow, how much is that worth? Base Bow is 50gp.
  
• Glub: Starts with upgraded fish monster, worth 5 Vitae Points
  
• Chz: Starts with Vampiric Ring, worth 50 gold or something I think.

So Gholoth may or may not be an exception, as I'm not sure if the Dwarven Cog gives a 25% trap damage bonus or not... but Glub is definitely an exception I think, because I don't think there's an item that grants Vitae Points. Even then, 5 Vitae Points is fairly small.

There are gold differences though, and Chz's Vampiric Ring is in a different league than the rest of the deities, though it has a fairly significant drawback. The Devs have said they plan to add more deities like Chz to the game.

Now, with all that said: Qaahl and Murkan's bonuses are given as weapons like you say, and therefore once you buy a new weapon, you "lose" those bonuses rather than build on top of them. You could possibly just kick back some gold for "selling" those weapons when you buy a new weapon, and that would put them sort of on-par with the other items.

As for your ideas: I'm not sure on "thieving" as an artifact. afaik weapon properties are applied as a percentage multiplier to price, and not just a plain additional cost. Being able to have Thieving on a greatsword would be pretty powerful and awesome. As for being able to see the room icons, I'm not sure on the usefulness or power of that. Most floors tend to be small, and once you're level 10 you can usually hear the hum of the portal.

Finally... I've looked at this mostly from a "Balance them based off arbitrary definitions" perspective... Though I think the devs are looking into more risk/reward gameplay with future deities, since they said they plan to make more like Chz. What if you got the theiving property for free, but everyone could also steal your gold? Or if you got a ranged damage buff, but took more damage from melee attacks?

I dunno, just spitballing.

[The AntQueen]

On this subject of item gods, I would say they have their place in the game since they are pretty good gods for new players(no crazy long term effects like the ring) and are a way for people who prefer certain weapon types to get into their comfort zone at the start. For example, I really enjoy playing as ranged characters, so I like Qaahl because he lets be start shooting right off the bat. If Qaahl wasn't there, then I would have to hope that the shop had an affordable weapon for me in order to get into my preferred hero build. I think there is potential for other item gods, like one who starts you off with one of the two handed swords, or something really cool like a magic staff :)


I've had an idea bouncing around in my head to give longevity to god bonuses. The idea would be for their to be some sort of shrine that can spawn in the dungeon where you can give a payment to your god(blood, maybe even health or stats) for an enhanced buff effect. So for example, Teak would buff your monsters further, Gholoth would buff up your trap damage evne more, And the item gods could give enhanced(high damage or attack rate, maybe a bit of % ice/fire/poison) version of their starting weapon. The issue here is that some gods effects don't stack like Glub or Chz. Here I think the devs could get creative. Perhaps Glub could adjust stats to move you closer to being like a lung fish(+strength,vitality -agility)? The possibilities are endless :)

Originally posted by BeAuMaN:

Well, at the end of the day... all the deities grant "items", or abilities comparable to items.

• Teak: +1 Monster Health, which can be gained via a potion that is.... 30gp I think?
  
• Murkan: Thieving Knife, How much is that worth?
  
• Gholoth: +25% trap damage, which the comparable item to that I think is the Dwarven Cog, Which is 30gp I think?
  
• S'hrim: 10% Store discount, which is the same as the Lucky Potion, which goes for 10gp I think.
  
• Qaahl: Cracked Bow, how much is that worth? Base Bow is 50gp.
  
• Glub: Starts with upgraded fish monster, worth 5 Vitae Points
  
• Chz: Starts with Vampiric Ring, worth 50 gold or something I think.

Small correction, The cog and vampiric ring are around 80 gold each, and the +1 monster health is from a heart, not a potion. No idea on thieving knife worth, I would estimate it at anywhere from 25-50 gold.

[Phantaeon]

Thanks for the suggestions. I might as well post the reason for why I made this discussion now. It was because as I mentioned I love Qaahl's monster's but I Just hate being forced on a range weapon. Maybe weapon choice could be an option at the start so that could be better. But some gods can have buffs that people really don't like and monsters they love ( Possible examples being Chz and Qaahl ). And on the flipside. If someone really likes bows then they practically have to pick Qaahl if they immediatly want thier comfort zone. which they might dislike the monsters they're stuck with.

[Codex]

Originally posted by The Antking:

On this subject of item gods, I would say they have their place in the game since they are pretty good gods for new players(no crazy long term effects like the ring) and are a way for people who prefer certain weapon types to get into their comfort zone at the start. For example, I really enjoy playing as ranged characters, so I like Qaahl because he lets be start shooting right off the bat. If Qaahl wasn't there, then I would have to hope that the shop had an affordable weapon for me in order to get into my preferred hero build. I think there is potential for other item gods, like one who starts you off with one of the two handed swords, or something really cool like a magic staff :)


I've had an idea bouncing around in my head to give longevity to god bonuses. The idea would be for their to be some sort of shrine that can spawn in the dungeon where you can give a payment to your god(blood, maybe even health or stats) for an enhanced buff effect. So for example, Teak would buff your monsters further, Gholoth would buff up your trap damage evne more, And the item gods could give enhanced(high damage or attack rate, maybe a bit of % ice/fire/poison) version of their starting weapon. The issue here is that some gods effects don't stack like Glub or Chz. Here I think the devs could get creative. Perhaps Glub could adjust stats to move you closer to being like a lung fish(+strength,vitality -agility)? The possibilities are endless :)

Originally posted by BeAuMaN:

Well, at the end of the day... all the deities grant "items", or abilities comparable to items.

• Teak: +1 Monster Health, which can be gained via a potion that is.... 30gp I think?
  
• Murkan: Thieving Knife, How much is that worth?
  
• Gholoth: +25% trap damage, which the comparable item to that I think is the Dwarven Cog, Which is 30gp I think?
  
• S'hrim: 10% Store discount, which is the same as the Lucky Potion, which goes for 10gp I think.
  
• Qaahl: Cracked Bow, how much is that worth? Base Bow is 50gp.
  
• Glub: Starts with upgraded fish monster, worth 5 Vitae Points
  
• Chz: Starts with Vampiric Ring, worth 50 gold or something I think.

Small correction, The cog and vampiric ring are around 80 gold each, and the +1 monster health is from a heart, not a potion. No idea on thieving knife worth, I would estimate it at anywhere from 25-50 gold.

i love Qaahl, because he has 2 of my favourite monsters, the eye and the spider. the bow to me is an inconvinience i do my best to deal with.
i'm never picking chaz, i don't feel very comfortable with half hp from the start.