About online multiplayer

[SirMilagres]

I'm making this thread to those who weren't at the discussion in Cral Greenlight page.

Powerhoof already stated about this. They want to implement online probably as bad as we do.
Here is what they said:

hehe the online support is definitely a divisive issue!

the game we designed is all about local multiplayer- i grew up playing local multiplayer games and since online play became so big i started to miss laughing in a room with friends crowding in front of the tv- so i thought of crawl to fill the void! my goal was not to sell the most copies, just to remake that silly fun experience in a new way, and make a product i could be proud of and other people like me who missed local multiplayer could enjoy- i never even imagined online!

but, since we launched the greenlight, we have had loads of people requesting online support, because many people don't have easy access to people to play against in the same room- so i understand

online is not a perfect match for every game, and especially such a fast action game, introducing lag can be a huge probelm... so is online a good match for crawl?

it might be!

there is a good chance we will find that we can achieve the kind of fun we want even with some lag, but testing this out and then implementing it is a huge task- if we tried to do it before launch we would be pushing back launch by a lot of months, maybe up to a year?

so our first step is to release the game and refine it and get the gameplay just right- if it goes well and it looks like we have enough people really wanting online play, then we will look at that! but being a team of 2 people, we can't do too many things at once, so things might happen at a slower pace than people want!

all i can say is- i personally would love to add the feature, but we just don't know yet if we can pull it off!
originally posted here: http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/discussion/230002412/45350245222234395/

[Garee]

you could implement Netplay by using GGPO http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GGPO

[5char]

What about gameranger as an option?

[Apes Together Strong]

Cmon some of us have no friends

[A.W.S.H.]

For now, I be content with the core game, but online is deffo a desirable feature.

[40_Onyx???]

such great game, but absent of online multiplayer is deal breaker for me :\
PC gamers prefer online to local, it's pretty obvious.

Devs should do a simple math,4 players need only one copy of a game to play local, but 4 to play it online. It's a good motivation.

[SirMilagres]

Onyx, its not that obvious due the fact that not all gamers prefer online to local.
I grew up playing local games with friends on the same TV. NES, SNES, Atari. Good stuff from old days.
Online is great, ok, but it does not compare with all the laughs and fun we get from playing with real people on the same couch.

Still, I agree that online would be great for this game. Sometimes my friends won't have time to play with me, or can't come to my house, or whatever the reason is, online is great on those times.
But a voice chat should be implemented to maximize the fun. It should be as lagless as possible. And.. well, I don't know if you read my post, but its just two developers and a LOT to add and balance. Its a hard and long work.
So its, not just "omg, why the heck didn't we think about adding online? Lets just do it!"

[40_Onyx???]

thing is that most of the players are not a children anymore, so we just don't have time or possibility to play together with our friends in one room. I really enjoied SNES times, but now online is the king. PC is not even suit for local, who got 3-4 gamepads for their PCs? Local games is consol's territory.

[Jackal]

lol no online mp? xDDD

[flamedragon1994]

ATM I am happy with the way the game looks from watching stumpt play pre-apha, I really hope online becomes a thing with crawl, but whether it's a year from now or later I don't mind, the developer's have done a great job as is so far, and while I agree they would sell more copies with online. I can still enjoy the game until then, Take an HDMI cable to my TV and hook up my ps3 controllers using motion joy and I'll just play it when I can.

[Dave of Powerhoof]

Thanks for posting that from the greenlight discussion, SirMilagres. What Barney said there is still a good summary of our thoughts.

Keep the discussion going though guys. It's great to hear people's opinions on the resurgence of local multiplayer, whether it's something you're into or not. And once people are playing the game it'll be awesome to hear your opinions and ideas for how online could work.

Garee: We'll be looking at tech like GGPO for sure, but for online multiplayer there's no magic bullet unfortunately - it's always a lot of work to integrate, I'd really like to avoid adding any lag into the client side controls too.

[SirMilagres]

I was thinking...
Crawl will be a huge success regardless of having online or not. I'm pretty sure of this.
Still, its undeniable that online would boost their overall sales. But adding online would delay the release date so... what to do?

What I think: Release the game when its ready. WIthout online.
I'll use an example just to make my point than I'm back to discussing Crawl: There is a (awesome) indie game called Faster Than Light. The devs release the game, it was great, players love it and devs continue to work on the game, improving it. More than a year later, they released an "advanced edition" full of new stuff and content and in a new platform (iPad). Players love it even more and they got new players who bought their game.

So, back to Crawl. Release it, without online. Its going to be huge, reviews are going to be 9 and above and everyone will be talking about it (and without doubt some will complain the absence of online multiplayer).
Continue to work trying to improve the game AND in adding online. Maybe even releasing it in a new platform (PS4? Sony seens reallly open minded towards indie developers, so it might be a good idea).
When its ready, release the all-new edition of Crawl full of new content and monsters and secrets and bosses and whatever you guys think of. And, lets not forget, online multiplayer.

Those who didn't bought it the first time will do it now either because of online or the new contents and you'll get a boost in sales the same way.
FTL devs didn't charge anything for its advanced edition. This decision blew my mind. I love that game and I would certainly pay for a DLC but no, they release it free. Not saying that Crawl Advanced ed. (or whatever you guys name it, if you decide to do it) should be free. Its perfectly normal and its your rights to charge for new content and I won't love you guys any less if you do that. But NOT charging... I think anyone that already have the game will be in awe with you and you'll manage to get a lot of new buyers. Its win-win situation, I guess.

Anyway, its just a tough.
Anything you guys come up with, I'll support.
=)

[Dave of Powerhoof]

Hey SirMilagres, that's exactly what we're doing with early access :D

[Haunted Adventurer]

I will play the early access and try to invite friends over (when they can take a break from their families). I will still love this game; I'm sure from watching all the youtube vids. I'm also looking forward to try some single player with the game AI. And I'm sure I'll love this game even more if/when online multiplayer is introduced. ;)

[Ken]

I'm going to be totally honest here, I will not buy this game until it has online multiplayer. The last time I had a friend come to my house to play videogames was years ago, and now I do all of my multiplayer online. Games like Risk of Rain, Skull Girls, Saint's Row 3 which are all supposed to be somewhat hectic games and we are willing to put up with the lag because it's our only way to get together. Local is a great addition, and will seal the deal for me when online is implemented because I'm always hoping for that day when I will be able to do couch coop, but until it happens there's no point in my purchase.

As to sales figures, Steam has always been more forgiving for games that release first, and add features later, but I think an earlier release will largely stunt Crawl's success. Shovel Knight released during the Steam sale to get the product out there for fans, and while I do greatly respect the decision of fans over raw profit, I would like to see games like this as top sellers.

[e-v-a-n]

Originally posted by SirMilagres:

I was thinking...
Crawl will be a huge success regardless of having online or not. I'm pretty sure of this.
Still, its undeniable that online would boost their overall sales. But adding online would delay the release date so... what to do?

What I think: Release the game when its ready. WIthout online.
I'll use an example just to make my point than I'm back to discussing Crawl: There is a (awesome) indie game called Faster Than Light. The devs release the game, it was great, players love it and devs continue to work on the game, improving it. More than a year later, they released an "advanced edition" full of new stuff and content and in a new platform (iPad). Players love it even more and they got new players who bought their game.

So, back to Crawl. Release it, without online. Its going to be huge, reviews are going to be 9 and above and everyone will be talking about it (and without doubt some will complain the absence of online multiplayer).
Continue to work trying to improve the game AND in adding online. Maybe even releasing it in a new platform (PS4? Sony seens reallly open minded towards indie developers, so it might be a good idea).
When its ready, release the all-new edition of Crawl full of new content and monsters and secrets and bosses and whatever you guys think of. And, lets not forget, online multiplayer.

Those who didn't bought it the first time will do it now either because of online or the new contents and you'll get a boost in sales the same way.
FTL devs didn't charge anything for its advanced edition. This decision blew my mind. I love that game and I would certainly pay for a DLC but no, they release it free. Not saying that Crawl Advanced ed. (or whatever you guys name it, if you decide to do it) should be free. Its perfectly normal and its your rights to charge for new content and I won't love you guys any less if you do that. But NOT charging... I think anyone that already have the game will be in awe with you and you'll manage to get a lot of new buyers. Its win-win situation, I guess.

Anyway, its just a tough.
Anything you guys come up with, I'll support.
=)

Your statement is wrong, IMO. It WILL have increased sales if Online is implimented, not that the devs are craving for money. If there was a survey with 500 PC gamers, to choose local or online MP, the majority will say online.

I will also not be buying Crawl - even though it looks like insane fun and has loads of potential, online multiplayer isn't there. I'm not going to go over to my friend's house (or vice-verca) just when I want to play Crawl. What if someone's friends are on vacation after they bought the game???

In 2014, local brings some fun experiences; LBP, SSBB and even Wii Sports have given me some great laughs. However, it's outdated for PC and inconvienient; I see consoles much better for local.