Regarding the difficulty of kourok and game length

[fruits]

To put it simply, kourok is too easy. The other boss isn't too hard or anything, its just kourok can be easily beaten with any weapon and decent stats and items at best. The boss shouldn't be easier than the monsters you were fighting through to get to the portal.

Now to what I am really bothered about, the length of games. Being able to fight the boss at level 10 seems too quick, too easy. You don't even get to fight teir 4 enemies much before your at the boss. Sure, its safer if you level up a little more and get some better loot, but if you don't risk going into the portal, one of your friends probably will. Games just feel short, like the game would be a lot better and more wholesome if the bosses were harder and/or the level to get into the portal is raised. Some times, nobody even buys much other than a weapon or cheap artifact before someone has already killed the boss. It makes the game feel incomplete without elongating matches intentionally.

[AMTDan]

Kourok is total crap when used by the AI but with 3 competent humans its hard. If the humans are really good and communicate he can be more brutal than ghidourak. I had a 10 skull profile destroyed by kourak at about level 15 thanks to 3 friends who are pretty good and were very sick of me winning.

Everyone has to use the projectiles to force you into bad areas and cut off access to the blob. If you use the laser at the right times its super hard to stun him with melee. I even had range but I rarely had a chance to do anything but run around, and I often found the only place they left open to move was into the pillars where you can get stuck and mega lasered.

I thought kourak was so much easier than ghidourak for a while first but when people get better he can be a real problem. With the AI he sucks balls though, they just fling attacks directly at you all the time which makes it a joke to dodge everything and murder him

[Intra]

Roxta2111 a écrit :

Thing is, it only halves your health at the time of buying. Or if Chz is selected, from the start.

This was not originally the case when it was patched after being over-nerfed the first time. I'll have to test it out more, but when I was playing it seemed about equivalent to having the same amount of health when you were in the late game and a very big downside in the early game.

I was playing Chz earlier but it didn't feel like Chz was living longer than other gods; about the same or less at the beginning.

[Safety Zone]

Crimefridge a écrit :

Roxta2111 a écrit :

Thing is, it only halves your health at the time of buying. Or if Chz is selected, from the start.

This was not originally the case when it was patched after being over-nerfed the first time. I'll have to test it out more, but when I was playing it seemed about equivalent to having the same amount of health when you were in the late game and a very big downside in the early game.

I was playing Chz earlier but it didn't feel like Chz was living longer than other gods; about the same or less at the beginning.

Yes, I should have mentioned that- it's an investment. When you first get it it really isn't great, but as you level up it pays back over nd over again.

[Pooka]

Roxta2111 a écrit :

Crimefridge a écrit :

The Coward's Shield is not the shield that rotates. It follows you at your back, so you can position it freely. It is effectively a tribal shield that follows you around. It costs I think 80 gold? But to say it's the best accessory in the entire game would be probably an understatement.

There are very few monsters that can even damage someone with a Coward Shield camped up the in the corner using a ranged weapon. Oh, and the "bow" creatures have larger hitboxes on their projectiles so they are even harder to aim around the shield.

My top item tier list btw:
1. Coward's Shield
2. Monster's Toe
3. Medal of Service / Medal of Bravery

if you're incapable of getting killstreaks then the medals are useless, so 3 would be Enlightened Scripture / Ghoul Eye / Feather of the Squire, Vampire Fang might be up there but I haven't tested it.

Bleeding Cross is probably my number 4.

If anyone needs to know what I think the worst item in the game is, it's the Toad Necklace, followed by the Vampiric Ring. Both make the game harder instead of easier, by a large margin.

Well ok, then you're right, although not about everything.

Cowards shield- Definitely sounds op.
Toads necklace- Yep, complete agreement.

Vampiric ring- Nope.

Vampiric ring is GREAT.
Thing is, it only halves your health at the time of buying. Or if Chz is selected, from the start. And then vitality increases tons throughout leveling up, and potions help too. All potions become useful investments. Your health is average/high very quickly.
If you have a good dps, not something like club or axe but something fast like knives or swords, you can keep your health full almost all the time. Knocking out kourok becomes a healing session, you'll most likely be at full health by the time he recovers. You don't even need the healer for Ghidraak.
That combined with cowards shield... wow. That would be seriously op.

Pardon me being late to the convo, but I'd like to also say that the vampiric ring is the ♥♥♥♥.
Hell I just did a run taunting the gods with Qaahl and proceeded to wreck Ghidourak. That extra bit of health gain was allowing me to bring out enough damage to keep me alive as well as bring him down.

[Barney]

Hey guys- a lot of the imbalances brought up in this thread are things we're aware of and looking for solutions to. It helps us a lot to hear what you think is overpowered or underpowered, so I can make a good hitlist of things for testing/rebalancing, so keep em coming :)!

[Safety Zone]

The Dead Spy(Brewster) a écrit :

Pardon me being late to the convo, but I'd like to also say that the vampiric ring is the ♥♥♥♥.
Hell I just did a run taunting the gods with Qaahl and proceeded to wreck Ghidourak. That extra bit of health gain was allowing me to bring out enough damage to keep me alive as well as bring him down.

Yeah, similar story. In a game where me and my friend pledged not to fight the boss, my friend bought the vampiric ring, and... wow. He never died after that point. My full set of tier four monsters were fodder to him, as he walked straight through the damage and regained all his health as he fought. In the end he just went to the boss, and it was dead before I could choose a head, he had lived so long as to have maxed stats and great weapon/spells, and ridiculous amount of artifacts.

[Intra]

My personal concern. other than most of the skills being too weak, is the "synergy dependent" pieces of bleed gear and how they are either too strong when you get a lot of pieces or already solid without any synergy and become even more OP.

Limitations on the amount of Shields you can have would be a good start, because multiple Bleeder Shields + Coward Shield with Hemophilia / Anticoagulant becomes a bit ridiculous on the tankiness levels, and maybe changing the bleed mechanic entirely so it's a seperate thing from being at critical health, but not make that dependent on a shrine (or make the shrines very common) allow some minor bleed by default and balance the items around that.

Right now the bleed items are part-casino, part-over the top solo. Red Soul Gem would be an example of something that's probably not desirable unless you have nothing else to buy / your build is complete, and Feather of the Squire or Ghoul Eye increases your effective survivability at critical health so they have value without bleed items.

[Marshes]

How about adding an option for adjusting the level at which you can fight the boss?

[Safety Zone]

Sergeant Marshmellow a écrit :

How about adding an option for adjusting the level at which you can fight the boss?

Uh huh, lots of people have suggested that.

[Ghostican]

Sergeant Marshmellow a écrit :

How about adding an option for adjusting the level at which you can fight the boss?

That's bound to happen at some point, since everyone is suggesting it. But it's not gonna solve th balancing problems for the bosses

[Petrichor]

Jatrick a écrit :

Now to what I am really bothered about, the length of games. Being able to fight the boss at level 10 seems too quick, too easy. You don't even get to fight teir 4 enemies much before your at the boss. Sure, its safer if you level up a little more and get some better loot, but if you don't risk going into the portal, one of your friends probably will. Games just feel short, like the game would be a lot better and more wholesome if the bosses were harder and/or the level to get into the portal is raised. Some times, nobody even buys much other than a weapon or cheap artifact before someone has already killed the boss. It makes the game feel incomplete without elongating matches intentionally.

I can't help but agree. I really, really wish that games were longer. I only have played with bots, but so far I have never reached teir 4, and I've played quite a few matches already. I only have them unlocked in challenge mode because of the occasional statue. This is a fun game, but so far the gameplay feels too shallow. You know something's wrong when you try to artificially extend gameplay by outright ignoring the boss. Edit: Oh, sorry, I should really read through these discussions more thoroughly before posting. Having the ability to configure the level at whcih you fight the boss sounds much better, and the boss would be stronger for each level required to unlock him, I would assume.

[Arthas]

I agree with some people here, but others... I don't know. Kourok is defiently easier to beat than Ghidraak with more experience, but when just starting, Kourok is often much harder. Even when using an "anti-fun" strategy, shooting the eyebeam at the grub, often I can hyperdash or dodgeroll towards the grub and hit it in AS the laser begins, immediately disabiling Kourok, but each boss also has a build that goes with it. I find Ghidraak is incredibly easy to kite even with hard AI or good, experienced players, but with a melee weapon (not including spears, which are very long range), Ghidraak is much harder, though not unbeatable by any means. With Kourok, you want a dodgeroll (or beserker, if you like the dangerous life), a high damage weapon or a ranged weapon that CAN hit Kourok's bubbled brain, and lots of speed. With Ghidraak, the most optimal build is a ranged magic staff such as Chain Ice, that can bounce between Ghidraak's body, or his severed heads. You want any high-dps ability or ranged ability, though dodgeroll works fine. I think because Kourok has a wider build path that beats him almost too frequently, often people associate this with Kourok being weaker- he isn't. If you play correctly, Kourok is very powerful with high burst and area control, but against someone who has beaten him again and again, you simply cannot really win. Even if bubbles are spot-on, a simple dodgeroll or good direction change can weave through the projectiles- they are too slow.

In terms of pure balance, I think Kourok should be buffed, but only in one, singular category- projectile speed. The bubbles of Kourok should be harder to dodge, and should reward aim better. Other than that, Kourok is pretty fine.

[Safety Zone]

jondreid a écrit :

I agree with some people here, but others... I don't know. Kourok is defiently easier to beat than Ghidraak with more experience, but when just starting, Kourok is often much harder. Even when using an "anti-fun" strategy, shooting the eyebeam at the grub, often I can hyperdash or dodgeroll towards the grub and hit it in AS the laser begins, immediately disabiling Kourok, but each boss also has a build that goes with it. I find Ghidraak is incredibly easy to kite even with hard AI or good, experienced players, but with a melee weapon (not including spears, which are very long range), Ghidraak is much harder, though not unbeatable by any means. With Kourok, you want a dodgeroll (or beserker, if you like the dangerous life), a high damage weapon or a ranged weapon that CAN hit Kourok's bubbled brain, and lots of speed. With Ghidraak, the most optimal build is a ranged magic staff such as Chain Ice, that can bounce between Ghidraak's body, or his severed heads. You want any high-dps ability or ranged ability, though dodgeroll works fine. I think because Kourok has a wider build path that beats him almost too frequently, often people associate this with Kourok being weaker- he isn't. If you play correctly, Kourok is very powerful with high burst and area control, but against someone who has beaten him again and again, you simply cannot really win. Even if bubbles are spot-on, a simple dodgeroll or good direction change can weave through the projectiles- they are too slow.

In terms of pure balance, I think Kourok should be buffed, but only in one, singular category- projectile speed. The bubbles of Kourok should be harder to dodge, and should reward aim better. Other than that, Kourok is pretty fine.

Hmm. Yeah. Maybe homing bubbles.

[starchild]

IMO Kourok is too easy. Even when playing with humans I can usually beat him at lvl 11 with the starting gear.

Dragon is tough for me, though.

[BlaZ]

Kourok is really easy if you have any sort of shield. There goes the bubbles and other pink blob... thing.