Infinite Respawn Zombies?

[Wight]

So this is one of the thing I liked the least in NMRIH1, I turned it off when I was able.

Will there be options to modify your game in NMRIH2 in a similar way or do we have to wait for eventual mods?

Maybe someone in the community have some insight :)?

Kind regards - Wight

[DOOMLAD9000]

Since Mutations were in NMRIH 1, it will more than likely be in 2. I hope so anyway, I really did not like infinite respawn zombies. Though I definitely see why it's a feature.

[CrypticPassage (Is/Eum)]

I don’t understand people that disable zombie respawning, it’s literally one of the most core fundamental mechanics of the game and without it you are completely destroying the entire gameplay and difficulty balance

Disabling zombie respawns is pretty much the modern day equivalent of infinite ammo servers

[Wight]

Originally posted by Jiggahertz ↣ ♠ #SaveTF2:

I don’t understand people that disable zombie respawning, it’s literally one of the most core fundamental mechanics of the game and without it you are completely destroying the entire gameplay and difficulty balance

Disabling zombie respawns is pretty much the modern day equivalent of infinite ammo servers

Not even close, it's one of the few ways to get through the more diificult maps with 1-2 players with 4-6 sure respawn is ok but I still don't like the feel of knowing you can't clear out an area, honestly I'd rather there were simply more zombies.

[CrypticPassage (Is/Eum)]

Originally posted by Wight Pride:

Originally posted by Jiggahertz ↣ ♠ #SaveTF2:

I don’t understand people that disable zombie respawning, it’s literally one of the most core fundamental mechanics of the game and without it you are completely destroying the entire gameplay and difficulty balance

Disabling zombie respawns is pretty much the modern day equivalent of infinite ammo servers

Not even close, it's one of the few ways to get through the more diificult maps with 1-2 players with 4-6 sure respawn is ok but I still don't like the feel of knowing you can't clear out an area, honestly I'd rather there were simply more zombies.

“It’s one of the few ways to get through the more difficult maps with 1-2 players”

Not even close. If you’re good at the game you can solo almost any map in the entire game with relative ease, as you can see by this playlist for example:

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLp60h0ep2dKznLD8LObPpGiq8gxrTUVPH

“I still don’t like the feeling of knowing you can’t clear out an area”

You’re not supposed to clear out areas, you’re supposed to complete objectives. Also, the zombie apocalypse doesn’t care what you don’t like.

Both infinite ammo and disabling zombie respawns are ways of playing the game that completely destroy almost all the difficulty, and are used by unskilled players who aren’t good at the game, and instead of just getting better they would rather play with cheats

[Wight]

Originally posted by Jiggahertz ↣ ♠ #SaveTF2:

Originally posted by Wight Pride:

Not even close, it's one of the few ways to get through the more diificult maps with 1-2 players with 4-6 sure respawn is ok but I still don't like the feel of knowing you can't clear out an area, honestly I'd rather there were simply more zombies.

“It’s one of the few ways to get through the more difficult maps with 1-2 players”

Not even close. If you’re good at the game you can solo almost any map in the entire game with relative ease, as you can see by this playlist for example:

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLp60h0ep2dKznLD8LObPpGiq8gxrTUVPH

“I still don’t like the feeling of knowing you can’t clear out an area”

You’re not supposed to clear out areas, you’re supposed to complete objectives. Also, the zombie apocalypse doesn’t care what you don’t like.

Both infinite ammo and disabling zombie respawns are ways of playing the game that completely destroy almost all the difficulty, and are used by unskilled players who aren’t good at the game, and instead of just getting better they would rather play with cheats

That's just your opinion and in my opinion you are wrong.

Also yeah looked through the videos and there are barely any zombies compared to my games. Also Sunzho he somehow got the RNG version that seemingly does not exsist anymore where you can camp upstairs? Also way less sprinters and kids.

[CrypticPassage (Is/Eum)]

Originally posted by Wight Pride:

Originally posted by Jiggahertz ↣ ♠ #SaveTF2:

“It’s one of the few ways to get through the more difficult maps with 1-2 players”

Not even close. If you’re good at the game you can solo almost any map in the entire game with relative ease, as you can see by this playlist for example:

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLp60h0ep2dKznLD8LObPpGiq8gxrTUVPH

“I still don’t like the feeling of knowing you can’t clear out an area”

You’re not supposed to clear out areas, you’re supposed to complete objectives. Also, the zombie apocalypse doesn’t care what you don’t like.

Both infinite ammo and disabling zombie respawns are ways of playing the game that completely destroy almost all the difficulty, and are used by unskilled players who aren’t good at the game, and instead of just getting better they would rather play with cheats

That's just your opinion and in my opinion you are wrong.

It’s not an opinion lol, everything I stated is completely objective and can be backed up by other seasoned veterans and skilled players.

Playing with infinite ammo and playing with disabled zombie respawns are both NMRiH with training wheels, and I think you don’t want to accept that lol

[Wight]

Originally posted by Jiggahertz ↣ ♠ #SaveTF2:

Originally posted by Wight Pride:

That's just your opinion and in my opinion you are wrong.

It’s not an opinion lol, everything I stated is completely objective and can be backed up by other seasoned veterans and skilled players.

Playing with infinite ammo and playing with disabled zombie respawns are both NMRiH with training wheels, and I think you don’t want to accept that lol

Never said anything about infinite ammo? And yes it is your opinion and if others share it fine, but then it is theirs; there is no objectivity in what you are saying.

After looking at the videos the version of the game I'm playing is way harder, perhaps cause of the mods but all in all it does not detract from my opinion that respawning zombies are bad.

I still stand by the opinion that I'd rather have a huge amount of zombies on the map rather than 5-10 at a time and zombies walking in from outside the map constantly.

[CrypticPassage (Is/Eum)]

Originally posted by Wight Pride:

Originally posted by Jiggahertz ↣ ♠ #SaveTF2:

It’s not an opinion lol, everything I stated is completely objective and can be backed up by other seasoned veterans and skilled players.

Playing with infinite ammo and playing with disabled zombie respawns are both NMRiH with training wheels, and I think you don’t want to accept that lol

Never said anything about infinite ammo? And yes it is your opinion and if others share it fine, but then it is theirs; there is no objectivity in what you are saying.

After looking at the videos the version of the game I'm playing is way harder, perhaps cause of the mods but all in all it does not detract from my opinion that respawning zombies are bad.

I still stand by the opinion that I'd rather have a huge amount of zombies on the map rather than 5-10 at a time and zombies walking in from outside the map constantly.

I’m bringing up infinite ammo because it’s similar to disabling zombie respawns because they’re both cheats, and they’re both ways of playing that have infected countless players, who would rather play with cheats than just get better at the game

There’s complete objectivity to the claims I made. I said that if you’re good at the game then you can solo almost any map with ease, and this can be backed up by the sheer amount of videos on YouTube of people solo’ing the hardest maps, not just on Classic but also on Nightmare

And the other thing that I said was that you’re supposed to complete objectives, since completing objectives is how you win the game. You only kill the zombies that you need to, not every single zombie in every single area. Some maps are even possible to complete pacifist

Also, you’ve claimed that your game seems to have more zombies, which is unlikely since the zombie spawn brushes are the same, and you’ve also said that you weren’t satisfied with that Suzhou video because you said there’s not enough runners and kids, and that a strategy was used that is no longer possible. Well you can always just look at a newer video, here you go :)

https://youtu.be/eL5E6sqTROk

[Demo]

The constant presence of spawning zombies is meant to sell the idea that they're always coming and there's always more. It's a feature that's used to also convey the narrative. No matter how many you kill, you're still barely making a dent in their numbers when there's just so many of them.

Respawning zombies was done to illustrate this point as well as keep the pressure on the player.

This was also done to optimize resource allocation, it's more sensible to only have 50 zombies on-screen that are continually replenished than it would to just place 1,000 finite zombies.

The game would lose tension if you walked outside, killed everything in sight, and then it was just silence while you had all the time you could want to formulate your next course of action in complete peace.

It wouldn't matter if it was 500 zombies or not to compensate for challenge, it would still lose its edge if it were a finite amount if ultimately you knew that all you had to do was clear X zombies to have peace and quiet.

NMRiH is designed to make sure you're never fully comfortable, and there's no better or genre-appropriate way to do this than to have the zombies always on your heels while you're managing your dwindling supplies.

Fundamentally-speaking, infinitely spawning zombies is one of NMRiH's core design pillars. It's not just a mechanic, it's part of its world-building.

I understand that you may not like this approach to their game design and it's fine you feel that way, but it's likely here to stay for the sequel as well. If not for narrative reasons, then for optimization reasons.

[DOOMLAD9000]

Now to start off, I would consider myself a good player. Not god tier level, but enough experience to complete most maps solo. With that being said. It is really frustrating to weld a door, extinguish a fire, or do the objectives, when the zombies I just killed suddenly reappear from an alleyway and kill me. A good example would be on Brooklyn when you have to extinguish the fire near the outpost. I usually clear as many zombies as I can, specifically on the other side of the fire. But with zombie respawning, you need borderline luck in order to get the breathing room required to extinguish that fire solo. Infinite ammo is in no way comparable to zombie respawning. Infinite ammo obviously makes the game borderline impossible to loose. Disabling zombie respawning on the other hand, just allows those who put in the hard work of clearing out an area the joy of being able to do the objective without a constant unfair threat of being killed/trapped/gridlocked by zombies that respawned. The threat of zombies is still there, the fear of being cornered is still there. But now you have a fighting chance if you widdle away at their numbers. But in the end of the day, it's entirely up to personal preference. I don't like infinite ammo servers, but I understand that there are some people who just want to shoot zombies, and that's okay. The developers were the ones after all who added the mutation setting, allowing each game to be tailored to your liking.

[Wight]

Hopefully they add similar mutations in the new game :)

[CrypticPassage (Is/Eum)]

Originally posted by DOOMLAD9000:

Now to start off, I would consider myself a good player. Not god tier level, but enough experience to complete most maps solo. With that being said. It is really frustrating to weld a door, extinguish a fire, or do the objectives, when the zombies I just killed suddenly reappear from an alleyway and kill me. A good example would be on Brooklyn when you have to extinguish the fire near the outpost. I usually clear as many zombies as I can, specifically on the other side of the fire. But with zombie respawning, you need borderline luck in order to get the breathing room required to extinguish that fire solo. Infinite ammo is in no way comparable to zombie respawning. Infinite ammo obviously makes the game borderline impossible to loose. Disabling zombie respawning on the other hand, just allows those who put in the hard work of clearing out an area the joy of being able to do the objective without a constant unfair threat of being killed/trapped/gridlocked by zombies that respawned. The threat of zombies is still there, the fear of being cornered is still there. But now you have a fighting chance if you widdle away at their numbers. But in the end of the day, it's entirely up to personal preference. I don't like infinite ammo servers, but I understand that there are some people who just want to shoot zombies, and that's okay. The developers were the ones after all who added the mutation setting, allowing each game to be tailored to your liking.

Based off of the things that you're saying, it's clear that you're definitely not at all a good player like you claim that you are, no offense.

For one thing, if zombies "randomly appearing behind you and killing you" is such a problem for you, then you obviously have a major lack of situational awareness. I genuinely can't remember the last time something like that has happened to me.

Secondly, you're saying that the fire extinguisher on Brooklyn with zombie respawning enabled requires borderline luck to beat?????? That section literally requires zero RNG to complete, and I, along with any other actual skilled player, can literally complete that section solo with zombie respawning enabled 1 million times out of 1 million times. The easiest way to do it is just take a gun out, quickly shoot all of the zombies that are in front of you that are the absolute closest to the fire, and then just start extinguishing the fire. The zombies that are behind you are pretty much irrelevant since the progress bar for extinguishing the fire moves so incredibly fast. I've done that fire extinguisher objective solo an uncountable amount of times without ever taking any damage. Sometimes there's barely even any zombies around you at all whatsoever.

If you want examples of objectives that ACTUALLY require borderline luck to do solo, look at the finale of nmo_in_the_dark, or the fire extinguisher objective on nmo_bunker.

Also, here's just one of many examples of the Brooklyn fire extinguisher section being done solo completely trivially (At 9:44):

https://youtu.be/S0rw5HP9tIk?t=584

"Infinite ammo is in no way comparable to zombie respawning. Infinite ammo obviously makes the game borderline impossible to loose."

Any modification to the game that makes the game exponentially easier is a cheat. And just because it's a mutation doesn't mean that it's not a cheat. Infinite stamina is also a mutation for example. By disabling zombie respawns you are literally giving yourself the ability to make it so that entire whole groups of zombies that would otherwise be in a place, are not there. That sounds like a pretty major form of cheating to me. And on some maps like nmo_sweden for example this would even pretty much break the entire map. Since nmo_sweden is a map that is very small and its objectives have the players constantly back tracking and moving all around it in areas where they've already been, this means that you can practically go through most of the objectives while almost never encountering or having to deal with any zombies at all.

"Disabling zombie respawning on the other hand, just allows those who put in the hard work of clearing out an area the joy of being able to do the objective without a constant unfair threat of being killed/trapped/gridlocked by zombies that respawned."

That's the thing that you and so many other newbies seem to not be able to grasp at all. You're not SUPPOSED to "put in the hard work of clearing out areas", if you do that then you're just straight up playing the game wrong. Like wtf is the point of clearing out an entire area if the zombies there are just going to respawn? The main point of the game is to complete the objectives, not pointlessly waste time killing an entire area of zombies that are just going to respawn anyways. You're literally blaming the game for something happening as a result of something that you're not even supposed to be doing lmao. Of course that entire area of zombies respawned, you were never supposed to kill them all to begin with. The only time where it's acceptable to clear out a whole entire area of zombies is if the map has it set up so that zombies in that particular area don't respawn, such as the Old Quarter on nmo_suzhou or the sewers on nmo_mansion for example.

[DOOMLAD9000]

You can't play the game wrong man. Like I said it's entirely up to personal preference. I personally prefer to clear out an area to secure it, and then do the objectives (when possible). Though I have completed objectives without the mutation plenty of times, I just have more fun when respawning is disabled.

[CrypticPassage (Is/Eum)]

Originally posted by DOOMLAD9000:

You can't play the game wrong man. Like I said it's entirely up to personal preference. I personally prefer to clear out an area to secure it, and then do the objectives (when possible). Though I have completed objectives without the mutation plenty of times, I just have more fun when respawning is disabled.

What I mean by "Playing the game wrong", is I'm referring to playing the game in a way that is not conducive to winning.

Also what does "clearing out an area to secure it" mean? How can you secure that area if the zombies are just going to respawn?

Also you completely ignored all of my other points about how it's a form of cheating and how it can even completely break some maps

[DOOMLAD9000]

"Also what does "clearing out an area to secure it" mean? How can you secure that area if the zombies are just going to respawn?"

They don't respawn because I disabled it.

"Also you completely ignored all of my other points about how it's a form of cheating and how it can even completely break some maps"

I ignored the points about cheating because the act of cheating would imply that there are solid rules to this game. And as we've seen, the rules can be changed with mutations. And even if we are to imply that they are cheats, it's not really a bad thing. It's not like they are bots or wall hacks. It's simply a way to play the game.

Also I have yet to play on any map official or custom that breaks if I have zombie respawning disabled. Though I have definitely not played EVERY single custom map, nor have I played every single official map with respawning disabled. So there definitely could be a map that is broken by this mutations.

I said it before and ill say it again, how you enjoy and play the game is entirely up to you.