Counter-attacks?

[Ygdrad]

I swear I've seen units hit back after being attacked during the enemy's turn. Am I going crazy or is this a thing? How does it work? What affects it?

[danpaladin]

Some items have a chance to block, which then allows for counterattack if they are within range (and you don't get interrupted while doing so).

Shields and throwing axes, effectively.

It is theoretically possible for 2 fighters to continue to battle until one is dead, but I haven't seen it yet. Sometimes I've seen them have 2 or 3 swings exchanged, though.

[Ygdrad]

Interesting. Throwing axes don't seem to show their ability to block in the stats screen. Is it because it is extremely low?

[danpaladin]

Originally posted by Ygdrad:

Interesting. Throwing axes don't seem to show their ability to block in the stats screen. Is it because it is extremely low?

They don't deflect projectiles, which is what that meter is pulling from currently.

You're right - Most things have such a small melee block chance that it isn't worth listing, as you might do it once or twice in a match (if at all). Throwing axes might be slightly more reliable in that area, though.

I suppose we could roll the melee block chance into that bar but it might confuse people on their inability to deflect.

[Ygdrad]

Keeping things simple is nice, but since there's a competitive element, having access to all the stats is pretty important. Otherwise people who worked out the math behind some of the more obscure stats will have an advantage, which goes against accessibility for the pvp.

I can't make informed decisions for equipment if I don't know how much block or dodge chance I'm trading my damage and defense for.

[phenosine]

I agree with Ygdrad. If you're worried about drowning players in information, you can make it an option for people to turn on if they wish. As of now, I have no idea how blocking or counter-attacking works.
Are bigger shields better at blocking and hence counter-attacking? As this information is nowhere to be found ingame, I am unable to make an informed decision.

[danpaladin]

I understand the concern and am working on getting more info to you throughout the game.

Yes, generally speaking, the heavier an item is the more chance it has of doing something you'll hope for in relation to its lighter comparisons.

The only thing I can think of in terms of the opposite would be the sword class, because a lighter sword means higher dodge.

[Cameron Hall]

Just curious, but how would it theoretically be possible for two units to battle until one is dead? I can see this happening if they get to retaliate regardless of a block as long as they have a block chance, or if block doesn't actually reduce all of the damage, just a percentage of it - but I was under the assumption (mainly due to arrows and being blocked) that blocking completely negates an attack. Doesn't this mean they'd only fight until someone happens to beat a block, which mean only one person even took damage?

[danpaladin]

Block does not always block 100% of the damage - it's a roll to see. Block is better thought of here as 'Counterattack chance' since it is not the same as Deflect (which is what we all know Horatio to be good at in the story). Deflect is what happens when a projectile hits the shield, and that projectile is completely negated on damage.

It's only theoretically possible for 2 fighters to retaliate until dead if on the off-chance the math kept landing on the low probability to Block > Counterattack for each one of them until one ran out of health.

[Sleepy]

Originally posted by danpaladin:

I suppose we could roll the melee block chance into that bar but it might confuse people on their inability to deflect.

What about displaying it as a dual bar? Kind of like you've done for maces. Keep the deflect bar as it, and maybe use a semi-transparent purple overlay to show melee block.

[Penhad]

Hey danpaladin,
first let me thank you for that awesome game. Can't wait to see the next updates :)

As far as I'm concerned, I kinda like Sleepy's idea about the dual bar for block/deflect.

And what about the category with a shuriken logo, i have some items, like the switchblade, that allow a ranged attack (2-4 tiles if I remember correctly) and gives what seems to be an armor piercing ability (the logo with an arrowhead going through a solid vertical bar) If i understand that ability correctly, it makes the user ignore part of the target's chance to deflect projectiles, right? if that's correct, does it work only for the ranged attack? or does it work in melee too with the main weapon, lowering the target's chance to block/counter attack?

Under that same category i have other items which don't seem to do anything except they are super light and give the maximum dodge bonus. One of them is the revolver called "self defense". Same stats as the smallest shields but without the small deflection chance. Do these have anything to do with block/counter attack? if not is there anything special about them?

Generally speaking It would be nice to have an ingame information page for the ability logos, or maybe just a lil text show up when you hoover over it with the mouse.

The last question is off topic, but while I'm at it, is there currently a way to make the vampiress fly? I'm pretty sure I've seen the AI do it

[danpaladin]

Vampiress can fly if you hold the 'Move' button down beyond her normal walking range.

Update 2 should have more information in the house for icons and what they mean. This might be where counterattack chance goes, too!

[Penhad]

Cool, thanks for the extremely reactive answer. Going back to the pit :)

[Vileguy]

Originally posted by danpaladin:

I suppose we could roll the melee block chance into that bar but it might confuse people on their inability to deflect.

I think what confuses me is not knowing what any of the UI elements mean because everything is obfuscated. Would be nice to have some mouseover tooltips at the very least. Trying to figure out what equipment to use is impossible because you have to test it in battle, but battle is too hectic to actually gauge effectiveness. For example, I got a bow that shoots baloons. It does 1 less damage than the other bows. Does it have some special effect? Probably not, but if it did I'm sure the game wouldn't tell me about it.

[Cameron Hall]

Originally posted by Vileguy:

Originally posted by danpaladin:

I suppose we could roll the melee block chance into that bar but it might confuse people on their inability to deflect.

I think what confuses me is not knowing what any of the UI elements mean because everything is obfuscated. Would be nice to have some mouseover tooltips at the very least. Trying to figure out what equipment to use is impossible because you have to test it in battle, but battle is too hectic to actually gauge effectiveness. For example, I got a bow that shoots baloons. It does 1 less damage than the other bows. Does it have some special effect? Probably not, but if it did I'm sure the game wouldn't tell me about it.

Pinned topics. Everything is shown in the beta, and will be out with the next update. If it's not shown yet, it will be, as any effects that aren't shown were added right before the beta was put out, so there wasn't enough time to add effects for things like the new Acid effect on some weapons. In the case of balloons, they probably weigh less like the other balloon weapons, or they'll have higher crit, or some other effect that isn't just weight/attack/defense, much like every other weapon that's missing a stat but doesn't clearly show anything.

[Jones]

I don't know if this has been said already, but why not list the counter attack as a perk?