Free hit/counter-attack rules?

[Joki the Disco Bandit]

Apologies if this has been asked and answered. I did a search for a few terms but couldn't find an answer so here we go:

What are the rules that govern when a character gets a "free" attack, or a counter-attack?

Example:
Sometimes I'll attack an enemy, a cyclops say, which is allowed to perform a counter-attack on me on *my* turn. I whap it about the face with a giant ice cream bar or whatever and pow! It hit me back! Why I oughta....

But it seems inconsistent. I've not been able to identify what the conditions are. Is it the weapon they're using? Is it their hat? Their zest for life? Do the gods just favor them over me? Why don't the gods like me?

A somewhat related question which I'll also pose here for the sake of convenience:

Why is it that *my* characters don't get to make an attack on enemies that a hair troll or cyclops has knocked next to them? And here I'm not asking that they get an *extra* attack. I'm specifically talking about turns in which I have a character who moves, but isn't in position to reach an enemy, then another of my characters (or a teammate) will throw or bat an enemy in the air and it will land right next to my character who has *not attacked*, and yet they'll sit there and do nothing.

This feels somehow wrong, to me. Thoughts?

Last but not least I have a tiny suggestion for your consideration. Cyclops' should not be able to bat/knock away other cyclops. Why? Because of their movement limit. I can't count how many times I've had a cyclops v. cyclops showdown, where one simply bats the other several hexes away, leaving the other totally unable to close the gap because their movement is now reduced, while the one that did the batting calmly strolls over and bats them again on the next round. Rinse/repeat. The other night this happened 3 or 4 turns in a row and it's super frustrating. So either a limit on the number of successive turns this can happen, or a straight change to make them unable to bat/boot another cyclops, would help.

Discuss!

[CarThief]

As far as i'm aware a unit's chance to block and counter-attack seems dependant on their block rate, the bigger the shield/block chance the bigger the block & counter-attack chance, i assume. Though it's not remotely as big as the projectile-blocking chance. Wouldn't hurt if they added the info saying how large the melee-block chance is, if such an stat exists and it's not 100% random.

Certainly got plenty of useful counter-attacks with my cylcops team with tower shields and mallets, really makes the counter-attack hurt, heh... Doesn't seem like blocking melee attacks negates their damage though. Amusingly, a counter-attack can be blocked and counter-attacked as well, and on, and on... Until someone stops blocking, or dies (not very likely it would go on for this long, though).

Units not attacking freshly flung about enemies is just timing, once they get to their destination they'll check for enemies and wait it out if there's nothing. Should any enemy fly down next to them they'll just ignore it. But if the enemy is flung next to their destination before they reach it, then that enemy is also a valid target i assume. That's what i've seen so far anyway. They could probably improve it to make timing matter less, flinging enemies out of position is a unreliable gamble as-is.

With the cyclops vs cyclops one, i'd say just lure em to you if that happens. Ussually the enemy clops has 2 movement points, if you move away, he'll be forced to follow (unless the AI is being very spiteful/smart, and uses the cyclop's throwable item instead, then it's just praying they don't knock you away by chance), and move in to do the next hit.

[Joki the Disco Bandit]

I've not personally seen a flung enemy ever take a hit from someone they land next to, but that may be because it simply hasn't happened with me or because it has happened and I missed it. I'll definitely keep an eye out from now on, to see if the timing is a factor as you suggest.

I'd like to know stats/rules/numbers, too. What you suggest makes sense, i.e. that it's dependent on some stat like block or defense. I just wish it were more transparent. :)

For the cyclops yeah it's certainly an option sometimes to move away. Other times the map and/or other characters constrain your movement and you're stuck. I'm not all that hung up on it but like I said it's very frustrating to have your character get stun-locked or the like 3, 4 rounds in a row.

Thanks for the input. Sometimes I feel like the only hard and fast rule in any game is Murphy's Law. :)

[itssirtou]

Enemies getting hit after getting punted is a timing thing. Which I still don't have the hang of -.- But cyclops have a pretty low move priority so it wouldn't happen often. But I've even seen sneks swing when they pop out during the opponents turn and they land next to an enemy.

[Joki the Disco Bandit]

Originally posted by itssirtou:

Enemies getting hit after getting punted is a timing thing. Which I still don't have the hang of -.- But cyclops have a pretty low move priority so it wouldn't happen often. But I've even seen sneks swing when they pop out during the opponents turn and they land next to an enemy.

I suppose I'd prefer if it weren't on a timer, then. If a character is moving, "looking for" an enemy and, if it doesn't find one, "going to sleep", I guess I'd rather see them "kept awake" until the turn's end. It would feel more... appropriate? Dunno. Having it "time out" just feels weird, especially when I have no indication of, and little control over, the timer itself.

[birb brain]

It's not a timer effect. it makes sense. since the world is in a "turn based" world since the bear crashed into the planet, it makes sense that after thier turn they go to sleep. The same is true that if you have an AOE attack and your attacker gets hit right before they attack the enemy, it interrupts their turn and they don't attack. So really, it's a, punt enemy, they land, other character moves, other character attacks. What you are implying would be, your unit attacks, the cyclops then punts the enemy behind the unit that already attacked, that unit can then attack again. That isn't fair at all. and it goes against the idea of turn based. either it occurred during the individual's turn (or chance to counter attack) or it doesn't.

[Joki the Disco Bandit]

No I specifically said I don't wish them to get some extra attack. Read it again. I mean a character that has moved, but has not attacked because there's nothing in range. Then an enemy gets tossed next to it.

I'm not hung up about any of this. If it stays like it is that's fine. I'm mostly trying to get a better understanding of the mechanics.

[birb brain]

I know what you originally posted. it most likely will not get changed as it follows the logic of the game. Character moves and attacks if possible. If not then their turn ends. It's a quirk in how the world changed I guess

[Joki the Disco Bandit]

The world is pretty quirky, isn't it?

[birb brain]

Very quirky.

[DragonHunter54]

Spawning units get to make an attack so long as they spawn next to an enemy (this applies to zombies, snakes and troll babies). And if a unit does end his move next to a flung unit that unit can be attacked (assuming they were flung before the move ended), this most commonly seems to happen with trolls tossing people as opposed to the cyclops knocking people around. This can work to your disadvantage though as a ranged unit that moves next to someone who has been flung will try to melee that unit instead of shooting that turn.

Those are the main observations I've seen in game.

[Yonsim]

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[Mothra]

Originally posted by ^c3^wBuckeroo:

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[Mr.Evolution]

Block rate = deflect rate from shield. If you block a melee attack, your guy will throw a melee attack as soon as possible. if he gets hit from a hat before or during the attack animation, the counter attack is canceled. its possible for a counter attack to be blocked and be countered as well. its also possible to block a attack and take a bunch of arrows and block all arrows and still do the counter attack due to him blocking all the attacks/arrows

[danpaladin]

Throwing axes, shields, and Kobolds have counterattack chances. They should mention this in most of the tool-tips if you hover over the sub-categories.

[Dalgard905]

I think the idea of some sort of "withdrawal" attack makes some sense in the game. Maybe certain weapon types, maybe certain mobs.