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I've always loved card games and I just started playing Duelyst here and there recently, so I don't know anything about balances and changes and such. I also don't know what the game's like in the competitive sense (what the meta is, all that). But I will say I hardly wait more than 15 seconds in matchmaking, almost every single time. Seems like there are a lot of people playing! I love what I've seen in Duelyst so far, at least the core of the game is so solid and entertaining. I hope they can gain momentum as the game really does deserve it.
If you're new, the differences are in the notes, but the biggest one for me is the fact they decided there wouldn't be rotations of sets.
That makes it REALLY complicated to design for the game, and after so many changes to so many cards it's hard to feel like the deck you love right now is "safe.", Like sure, there will be new things that destroy it or make it better or whatever, but the core idea of it and the cards that made it viable in standard just seem like the Devs could overhaul them suddenly and you're playing with more or less different cards, even though they have the same names and rarities.
The game is by no means bad right now, but it was a bit of a gut punch for me when Shim'Zar was suddenly ok to play in standard.
I'd played the Thunderhorn/Aspect of Shim'Zar combo, and it was fun, and playing against it was fun (imo, a lot of people don't agree lmfao) but when it rotated out, along with some of the other strategies and combos it was a breath of fresh air. Like, "what's going to be the big thing now? lets find out stuff. This is interesting all over again." - but we got that for an extremely short period of time, then suddenly tons of cards in top tier decks were nerfed or changed, Shim'Zar is legal again alongside Trials of Mytharon and we're back to battle pets and whatever.
Legacy in any cardgame is a cool format. I really think they should've just let legacy be a big format that older players play with their now not-standard-legal-cards and give it it's own prize structure (lesser so than standard), sure it'd be played less, but it's more or less like that in ever CCG.
I could go on and on and i'm gonna shut up, but ye.
TL;DR - Game isn't dead, but the community enthusiasm isn't like it was and they're not saying anything or addressing it.
Who knows, game could be better and break the convention of having multiple formats to keep it "fresh" or w/e. I'm down for it, but the lack of anyone saying anything is leaving at least me and some others who've played for awhile, really underwhelmed.
They abandoned game to make another game, its never getting balanced.
Communication has always been a bit of a sore spot for Duelyst - and with the recent change of staff, the situation has not improved, unfortunately.
One has to look in several places (e.g. the official forums, reddit, ...) to get a clear(er) picture but... Look here[duelystcentral.com].
Then why are you posting so much in a dead game's forum, with a dead playerbase ?
It's not terribly unbalanced right now. There was very little wrong with the standard format before they killed Legacy and changed all the cards in the patch either. Dunno why people think otherwise.
Thanks, I'll have a look :v I hope something good happens though, cause Duelyst still has tons of potential.
This Game had so much potential but it is a pay to win / or invest extrem amounts of time to get a decent cardstock. This leads to the actual problem of absolute broken matchmaking. You have to fight people with perfect decks. Bandai and the old Team had no interest in solving this problematic issue. Nobody wants to fight (soon) Diamond Players in their first match. And after reset you exactly have to fight this people over and over again.
They could easilie solve this with bronce/ Silver/ (and so on) Bots to give the player reasonable enemys on their way to the higher brackets. The KI isnt that bad. It could manage this without a doubt. This would also eliminate the waiting times for people like Casual Collector.
This would mean in fact. -You queue ranked. -There is no enemy with the same ammount of medals. - Botmatch for your tier.
A game that attracts people should not be a chore.
Duelyst looks great. Gathering cards is great. Strategys are great. But to play it is a chore and this is a tremendous problem.
And the complete absence of fun pve modes are another part of the problem. Weekly bosses are cool but not enough to make the people stay.
We better not even talk about Ordeal..
Here is another story. They celebrate Summer and I got 3 Orbs. Dont you even dare to think I would have gotten a legendary out of it. This is another part of the problem. They not play fair so nobody wants to play their game.
Having a CCG without different formats is begging for trouble. You're either looking at power creep, decks that rarely change overall and/or a format that steadily has less and less cohesion.
And that's just rattling off some off the top of my head lazily, the number of problems with that is way greater than that really.
Also I feel like a celebtratory package giving you 3 orbs and you expecting a specific rarity from among them is a touch entitled if I'm entirely honest.
As for P2W... it's uh... a CCG... calling a CCG P2W is shaky ground.
I can sympathize with wishing it was a digital living card game where you just buy a copy of the game and you have all the necessary pieces to play, sure. But it is a CCG, it's advertised as a CCG and to come into it expecting anything short of grind (read: Play and unlock) or pay is a bit silly.
And even once you've paid, you're literally not one upping anyone, everyone has access to the same things. It's not like throwing money at the game will level your cards up higher than someone else could reasonably achieve as F2P or you're getting access to cards you can only get if you pay real money. So I feel that's an extremely inaccurate way of representing not only duelyst but any CCG in existence.
Medals more or less don't mean anything with regards to skill level, it's just how much you've played and how much you've won with a given faction. Someone with 10 Lyonar medals just means they have, over the course of all their matches, won 1000 games as lyonar. If they'd only played 1,000 games ever as lyonar that'd be impressive, but if their win/lose ratio is something like 3-5 losses for every 1 win as lyonar you're looking at a pretty awful lyonar player.
Even the "Won a tournament" ribbon doesn't mean anything because most people I've played who have them make the most shockingly bad plays.
As for "forbidden strategies" ... like... does that mean Magic the gathering has forbidden strategies because you can't play Ancestral Recall, Yawgmoths Will or Black Lotus in standard?
That's just a really bad way of looking at it.
You have legacy for people with the huge card pools, you have standard for new players and people interested in the current meta/torunament stuff, and as you add to the number of cards in existence you maybe create specific metas like "This month there will also be a queue for our custom card meta" or "only abyssian legacy decks meta" or something. It'd add some spice to it all and keep different formats and brewing decks for them lively.
Instead we have this terrible idea to literally go in and edit cards people were generally happy with (not saying they were happy with every single card, but y'know) and then mash everything together, even though it's evident that trials of mytharon at least was designed with the intention of there being rotation in the game.
It's just bad decision making, bad long term for the game in general and it screams "None of your investments in this game or this community matter to us and we will literally unheave everything at a moments notice"
It's a great game and it could be greater. It was underrated even at the best of times and I'd be thrilled to see the devs get it back on track.
But it seems to me they don't care about it anymore and neither do the most dedicated long term members of the duelyst community.
The Duelyst discord alone is a testiment to how little faith in it or respect for it most people have at this point.
At this point all we've got is "we wont be closing down the servers" and "we plan to make some more content for it" but in this really, really flimsy "I guess we'll throw a few things in that direction, but it's no longer that important" kind of way.
This is my impression at very least. I'm welcome to corrections and opposing viewpoints, but this is how it looks to me.
Or a CCG, in neutral or even positive terms.
Please share one of those perfect decks; despite playing for over a year, I still don't have a perfect deck.
The AI is terrible, as evident in any boss battle (which are a challenge because of the boss' special decks / abilities / starting board and NOT because of its terrible AI).
So... find the right timeslot to play and you rank up versus bots. Makes the ladder rather meaningless, doesn't it ?
And ribbons are an even worse metric for skill as they only 'measure' the number of ranked wins, without taking the number of losses into account. Ribbons measure playtime more than anything else.
So... you got three free orbs and didn't pull a legendary so the orbs are rigged ?
I got 1 Legendary and 3 or 4 Epics from those free orbs, so "they" must really like me... ;)
I know medals arent perfect but a good portion of people with at least 1 medal have a certain cardstock.
And why is a ladder meaningless if you have another bot for every bracket? You fight real players aswell if you get matched with somebody at eye level. There maybe is no problem from your point of view, cuz you have a decent stock or cuz you adapted the current situation. How many people will take it as it is or just leave.
The outcome would be that matchmaking would feel more organic AND fun. Some easy and some harder fights sounds like a good mashup too me and at least like a approach to fix the problematic that led to the small playerbase.
If they dont change anything nothing will change about the playerbase till the next expansion, am I right?
I thought this thread was about ideas. Sure you can critizice mine if you have a better one. :)
I think Deus made a good approach but you whisper seem to just deconstruct my ideas just for the sake of it. I am pretty sure you have some ideas how Duelyst could solve at least some of the minor problems about the playerloss. Nowadays a new player joins, but he leaves the game after some fights against veteran players. Does that feel right to you?
Simplest solution would be to have an unranked mode - which shares the que with ranked (if you join unranked, your rank won't be affected, regardless of wheter you fight someone who queud ranked or unranked). With only a single queu (from a matchmaking PoV), waiting times wouldn't be affected but still allow for a stress-free experience if someone just wants to play casually.
As for new player experience... "lenghtening" Bronze would solve that, maybe together with making the solo challenges more prominent (not mandatory, though) because they teach a lot of the important game mechanics.
Because the (current) ladder is supposed to be competitive Player vs Player gameplay.
The bots are just bad. Take any deck and go to the practice mode. Unless you play badly (or have rotten luck), you will win that match because the bots are too simple and predictable and easy to outplay.
(How many real player would use hard removal (e.g. Martyrdom / Entropic Decay / Natural Selection) on an enemy's Gor ?)
<<...>>
Discussing ideas on the Steam forum may be nice for the those involved but it won't have any effect; Steam forums have always been something that existed with barely any Dev attention and since the changes (BNE cooperation, changes of Devs, changes of Community Managers), Steam forums receive no official attantion whatsoever.
(I PMed the new Lead Community Manager on the official forums a couple days after he took over the job, requesting a Sticky thread with the link to their official support system. Six weeks later, I neither received a response nor is there a sticky.)
From buying more packs granting more chance to get powerhouses you want, to outright buying those you're looking for: money buys power in CCGs.
Yes there's cheap decks once in a blue moon that can compete or even overrule the expensive standard, but I've never seen one that wasn't quickly disspelled by the 'new release meta' (buy now to partake in that..)
Well.. Since you've mentioned MtG I can thankfully refer to that:
Legacy, a player spending more money will have access to more extreme powercards, like the Lotus, Moxes, Ancestral Recall and tons more.
How exactly is that not pay to win?
Ofcourse 'free' or cheap players could 'just as well' get those cards by playing for ante (haha) or trading their other random cheap stuff 'up' all the way to those monsters..
But let's be reasonable and say that that is an at least slightly unreasonable take.
Which would be open to 'abuse'- having an undeservededly high or low rank and having it stick while playing half-ranked up&downranking others.. Especially if coupled to the other 'bots in ranked' idea ofcourse.
disclaimer: I've never touched Duelyst, but that shouldn't invalidate any of these points.
Edit: forgot to respond to this.
I'm conflicted on this personally; MtG as an example again, having different formats that get changed up with new releases (CCG style) versus the LCG 'all included' way,
both have their problems surely; the latter could get stale, and the former seems to end up as a neverending race to catch up with the new best thing, requiring poodles of cash time and again. And power creep is one thing I've seen tons of in MtG (which I've seen very little of the last years).
That would be true when Epics / Legendaries were inherently more powerful than Rare / Common / Basic cards.
However, that's not the case in Duelyst.
Many Epic / Legendaries are enabler for certain archetypes - but not inherently more powerful than similar cards (and there's a fair number of trash-tier legendaries - e.g. Elveiti, Rook, Paddo, Gauj, Oserix, Sphynx,...).
In fact, many of the most powerful cards are Rare or lower, if not basic (e.g. Natural Selection, Blood of Air, Dancing Blades, Bloodtear Alchemist, Healing Mystic, Primus Fist,...).
Are we still talking virtual cards or real cards ?
And IIRC, even in Legacy, the Power Nine are banned (and Restricted in Vintage - meaning 1 copy in 60 card decks. So we are looking at ~ 6.7% chance of having one in your starting hand, discounting mulligans. And a Black Lotus / Mox becomes progressively less useful with every turn played...).
Except even 'powerhouses' in Duelyst have a fixed price - 2700 Spirit (for a playset of 3 / 900 spirit for a single copy) - making them affordable even for "Free" players, as you can easily get about 1 orb per day through daily quests (which will build the collection and providing quadruplicates for disenchanting).
Would already be 'possible' since you can't drop from a league once you reach it (once you reach Gold, you can't drop below rank 10 for that season, same for Diamond / 5 and S /0).
There are no bots on ranked at the time being (and with ranked / unranked sharing a queue, there wouldn't be).
Rarity, availability, price and power may be correlated (and it's the last two that I was referring to), but as you yourself show, 'rarity' in droprate (which btw is not even the same as the quoted rarity on the card at WotC) isn't a measure of power, though it can be a measure of max available power; meaning the biggest/hardest combos require some rare enablers oftentimes.
exactly; higher level play requires these inherently more powerful cards to combo with. They may not be more powerful on their own, but that's something very different from inherently not more powerful!
We're still talking real cards, or more general CCGs in total.
I was never referring specifically to virtual cards; where there is not much inherent difference anyway, apart from even easier to skew for the publisher.
That's my bad, it's been so long I mixed Legacy and Vintage up.
But...you're not going to discount their playing value right? They're banned for a reason, and it's not the 6.7% change that they might do something that did that I'm sure.
Or if you do want to, how about the non-mana granting rest of the power 9; even seeing how there's just 1 in the deck, still puts you at a serious disadvantage as an opponent without.
And if you do:
How come there's an official Pauper variant
instead of seeing half the tournaments won by people with decks cheap as chips?
(and for kicks: how come the expensive cards are expensive if it's got absolutely nothing to do with them being actually better)
Having no idea how orb/day translates to 2700*afew, I have no idea how long building a different deck would take..?
It's just a built in aspect of the game, and with Digital CCG's it's not even a major hurdle.
Like... sure, Legacy/Eternal formats in magic are expensive as ♥♥♥♥ to get into, but that doesn't make them pay to win, they're just expensive to acquire the necessary things for in order to play the format. It's like a different version of magic with a higher price tag, in this case because collectors place a historic value on the cards, which are also not reprinted because of the reserved list.
This doesn't prevent you from playing eternal though, you can use proxies. You just can't enter an official tournament with proxies, and many of the pro players who do play eternal don't own these cards, they borrow them from collector friends or supporters on the pretense they will be returned in a similar or as-close-to perfect condition as they were lent out in.
There are comparable aspects of MtG to Duelyst, but this one isn't even vaguely sensible because, as Whisper pointed out, everything in duelyst has a set spirit value to obtain, and it's really REALLY not hard to get a tier 1 deck unless you're absolutely terrible at the game or totally refuse to cash in cards you're not using or don't need to get your first ladder ready deck.
And even if you choose to not do that, the game is still fun and playing other people in your bracket is perfectly fine. You don't need to graduate to diamond or above when you're new, just play lmfao
I mean if you want to call CCG's in general p2w in general I'm not going to stop you or really care, but it just seems like an inaccurate way of looking at formats and free to play games that offer you the option to pay when even paying will result in the same thing as anyone else who's playing the game, no matter who they are or whether they did or did not pay.
Back on topic though, Duelyst does seem ♥♥♥♥♥♥ long term to me. It might be "ok" right now, but it's not like it was, and the total lack of communication from Devs and the haphazard changes that were made before they went totally quiet make the game seem destined to die.
I hope it doesn't and something changes, obviously. But I'm just saying what I'm seeing here.