Soooo.......the "defying fate" tagline of the marketing team is a red herring? (SPOILERS!)

[shadowsite]

I am honestly confused and astonished by this game.
Just finished it and I am a bit confused, maybe someone can clear it up a bit better:

When the first marketing of this trilogy began, the tagline was "defying fate" leading to A LOT of people hoping and thinking that you can save Aerith in this case since that was THE biggest scene most people were waiting for.
But so far, Aeriths death included, everything regarding the story has going excatly like the OG games did (minus the new bosses which don't really add to the story, but are cool to look at).

So how are we defying fate so far?
Nothing we did was any different from the original story, making the whispers a bit pointless to be honest.

And yeah I know, Zack and alternative timelines and stuff, but really, pleaes explain to me how the timeline where Zack lives influences anything really in the, lets call it, "main" timeline (since different dimension are involved now, thanks nomura, you can't really say which timeline is the "real" one).

I feel like we were a bit fooled by the marketing back then and even for rebirth, thinking we would be getting a different story or the chance to change the course and events of certain thing.
But if they just follow the OG script with a few bells and whistles, then they could have just called it the remake trilogy without the "false" advertisment :/

[Unknown]

The remake features multiverses, so no interpretation is fiction. Literally anything is canon. Just stick with the original & anything that came before the remake & treat it differently.

[Giganx]

The whispers you keep seeing are basically the arbiters/enforcers of fate, and so far throughout the story we've consistently bullied our way past them and changed fate.

Now apparently every time fate is changed it creates a forking parallel world, which explains the random jumps to different worlds where things seem to have played out differently.

As for Aerith, when she dies it shows a quick edit of the blood stain under her to a similar scene but with no blood. My guess is that Aerith only dies in that world but survives in another. We'll have to see what happens once all of these parallel worlds and timelines get resolved in the next game; she could very well end up living.

So yea, the whole story so far has basically been ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ with fate, so the tagline makes sense.

[theycallmetomu]

My interpretation is that it's left up to game three to really make a determination. I suspect the final destination will actually look very much like the original game, but with significant reframing.

If it weren't for the fact that there's already a FF7 game named Reunion, I'd say Reunion would be the name of game three, since they've VERY heavily built up the notion of reunion. Another thing to consider: Hollow, the ending song of FF7 Remake kind of works better as a response to the ending of Rebirth, almost like it was a trailer. So let's approach the next game with the same logic. Where Hollow was clearly a song told from the perspective of Cloud, about a failure to stop the death of a loved one, No Promises to Keep is all about talk of parting and reunion. And it's not Cloud or Aerith who has that as a major line of dialogue, but actually Zack.

So my prediction is that to the extent fate is changed, it won't be "Aerith is somehow alive lulz" but rather that Aerith's existence, along with Zack, will be material, and that those two will finally reunite. This has the nice side effect of cleaning up the Cloud/Tifa/Aerith love triangle as well. I give the writers enough credit that the "Hey you saved Aerith PSYCHE!" moment isn't just there to be a massive gutpunch, but simply allowing Cloud to change fate would probably be too easy. It's also clear that Sephiroth, in this continuity, very explicitly kills Aerith to induce Cloud to want to change fate, because breaking the original continuity is part of Sephiroth's plan for Reunion.

So what's the final takeaway? I'm guesisng game 3 will have Cloud's disassociation focus not just on his denial of his history of Zack, but also on Aerith's death. There will moments where he has to open up to his emotions, accept that Aerith is dead, and maybe in the lifestream will have a tearful goodbye. Zack and Aerith will walk off together to fight Super Uber Neo Sephiroth while Cloud accepts that there are things in life you just cannot change, while simultaneously doing what he can to change the things he can (good ol' Serenity Prayer, right?) Queue a monologue about how it may not be a homecoming, but that that doesn't mean that things are lost forever. If they want to get super meta they can even play on the fact that the Remake continuity is *itself* an example of a thing that was thought finished being reborn, and thus a form of reunion.

So while yes, I think Cloud just getting no-selled on saving Aerith in Rebirth is painful and seems to undercut the messaging, I think this is really the series' "The Empire Strikes Back" moment, and the way to both fight and accept fate will be fully embraced by the third game.

[Takfloyd]

The entire point of the "changing fate" aspect of the story was to make people HOPE Aerith could be saved, in order to keep people on the edge of their seats. If this wasn't obvious to you then I don't know what to say. It's all PR in order to keep people talking and speculating about the game. If it was a straight remake, all that discussion wouldn't be happening and the games wouldn't stay relevant in people's minds in the time between each release.

[Tiberius]

The whole "changing fate" comes from this scene actually.

https://youtu.be/pwDMFe5QQ_M?si=HmQFdw9jk7tdaX35

Pay attention to what was shown and what was NOT shown in those glimpse of the future. You see a meteor is flying towards the earth (but not what happens after it). This is what "fate" is actually abt. And that's why at the ending scene of FF7 remake, barret said sephiroth wants to destroy the world and needs to be stopped (remember... the team is not supposed to knw sephiroth's plan until you meet him in temple of the ancient)

You just happen to knw the context of those scenes because you've played og ff7.

[windsea888]

But without the false advertisement "remake" wouldnt have sold nearly as many copies. Duh

Thanks for posting that video, great reminder about why the ending was so ridiculous. ..."if we fail" then ff7 gets its actual ending, as if that's a bad thing that the original story would remain intact. Lol

[mpcgannon]

It's Sephiroth who is defying fate.

[Tiberius]

Originally posted by windsea888:

But without the false advertisement "remake" wouldnt have sold nearly as many copies. Duh

Thanks for posting that video, great reminder about why the ending was so ridiculous. ..."if we fail" then ff7 gets its actual ending, as if that's a bad thing that the original story would remain intact. Lol

The whole scene is mainly to fix the motivational issue of why the avalanche needs to chase sephiroth. If ppl with brain actually paid attention to the plot, everything sephiroth did was just to further avalanche's goal. He murdered the same ppl that avalanche wanted to destroy. At certain point of the story (president twr), even barret questioned if sephiroth is the good guy.

But then again, back then, millenials were still teenage kids

[shadowsite]

Ok thanks everyone for the input!

I guess my main issue with the games play on changing fate is, that there basically is none :/

I get it, multiverse theory, in some Aerith dies, in some not and in some Zack and Cloud have a hot, steaming relationship while Aerith watches from the chair.

But the fact remains: the story that WE, the players, actually play is nothing more than a gloryfied retelling of the original story, without any major or significant changes.
And I guess that's what is rubbing me the wrong way since I expected an actually changed story instead of a promise that is (at least so far) not been fullfilled.





Then again, we are talking about ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Nomura, mr.:"let's put crucial story plots for KH on differnet game consoles".
No wonder the story is unneccesarily comlpex and confusing, trying to build something up for the next game just for it to be a wet fart like KH3 was :/

And on the same note: did anyone else who played the KH games and this one noticed that there are A LOT of extremely similar shot in cutscenes whic are almost identical from major KH 3 cutscenes?
He espacially like the good ol' "zooming in on the eyes for a pupil reaction change" shot, damn that was so often in this game xD

[goodbye_bonito]

Originally posted by shadowsite:

Ok thanks everyone for the input!

I guess my main issue with the games play on changing fate is, that there basically is none :/

And this is the best route they could take with remakes, hopefully it will stay fair to the original going into 3rd part as well.

[shadowsite]

Originally posted by goodbye_bonito:

Originally posted by shadowsite:

Ok thanks everyone for the input!

I guess my main issue with the games play on changing fate is, that there basically is none :/

And this is the best route they could take with remakes, hopefully it will stay fair to the original going into 3rd part as well.

Like I said in the opening thread: I wouldn't mind if they literally just remake the entire OG without any changes, I would love it.
But then I expect them drop the "change fate" bs and just roll with the original and leave the multiverse theories for youtubers to deal with.

Honestly, I liked seeing zack again but in the end he was there for 1 battle which may or may not actually happened because, again, multiverse, and for the rest we seen him die in some ways in other universes and then leaving.
He did not really contribute to the overall plot in any way besides fanservice.

[level3]

Originally posted by mpcgannon:

It's Sephiroth who is defying fate.

This

[SciopticChimken]

Originally posted by shadowsite:

I am honestly confused and astonished by this game.
Just finished it and I am a bit confused, maybe someone can clear it up a bit better:

When the first marketing of this trilogy began, the tagline was "defying fate" leading to A LOT of people hoping and thinking that you can save Aerith in this case since that was THE biggest scene most people were waiting for.
But so far, Aeriths death included, everything regarding the story has going excatly like the OG games did (minus the new bosses which don't really add to the story, but are cool to look at).

So how are we defying fate so far?
Nothing we did was any different from the original story, making the whispers a bit pointless to be honest.

And yeah I know, Zack and alternative timelines and stuff, but really, pleaes explain to me how the timeline where Zack lives influences anything really in the, lets call it, "main" timeline (since different dimension are involved now, thanks nomura, you can't really say which timeline is the "real" one).

I feel like we were a bit fooled by the marketing back then and even for rebirth, thinking we would be getting a different story or the chance to change the course and events of certain thing.
But if they just follow the OG script with a few bells and whistles, then they could have just called it the remake trilogy without the "false" advertisment :/

Part 3 obviously isnt out yet, but my interpretation to "defying fate" and choosing their own destiny at "Destiny's Crossroads" in remake and Remake Intergrade, when you fight Whisper Bahamut, Whisper Bahamut is the symbolism for defying fate as it is the boss that is fighting Cloud to correct the changing of events back to the OG timeline. In Rebirth with Zack, though his actions in the Terrier timeline he opens up new timelines (Shiba Inu and Pug). I believe I counted 5 or 6 timelines when Aerith was playing multiversal musical chairs with Cloud to shuffle the holy materia (I still have no idea whats going on with that)

[SciopticChimken]

Known timelines:
Beagle Stamp
Terrier Stamp
Chihuahua Stamp
Shiba Inu Stamp
Pug Stamp

Beyond Time existing outside of timelines

[Bad_Conduct]

Originally posted by shadowsite:

I am honestly confused and astonished by this game.
Just finished it and I am a bit confused, maybe someone can clear it up a bit better:

When the first marketing of this trilogy began, the tagline was "defying fate" leading to A LOT of people hoping and thinking that you can save Aerith in this case since that was THE biggest scene most people were waiting for.
But so far, Aeriths death included, everything regarding the story has going excatly like the OG games did (minus the new bosses which don't really add to the story, but are cool to look at).

So how are we defying fate so far?
Nothing we did was any different from the original story, making the whispers a bit pointless to be honest.

And yeah I know, Zack and alternative timelines and stuff, but really, pleaes explain to me how the timeline where Zack lives influences anything really in the, lets call it, "main" timeline (since different dimension are involved now, thanks nomura, you can't really say which timeline is the "real" one).

I feel like we were a bit fooled by the marketing back then and even for rebirth, thinking we would be getting a different story or the chance to change the course and events of certain thing.
But if they just follow the OG script with a few bells and whistles, then they could have just called it the remake trilogy without the "false" advertisment :/

If they didn't recreate all the major original scenes, they would have missed the mark. All they did was extend the story with some ultimately inconsequential changes and add some Bollywood style musical scenes.

It really is disappointing. They decided to play this game really really safe.