Opinions on weak sales

[SpeedPL]

My opinion is that they went too far in the system requirements for this game. REMAKE still does not work on full speed on my PC specs - but at least it works. Rebirth does not even start so I don't plan on buying it until I change my PC... so thats somewhere in the near or far future.

[windsea888]

Square Enix's audience of people who love their modern style of game is simply not large enough to hit their shareholders sales targets. Maybe if each FF remake fan buys three copies of each game the shareholders will be happier.

The reality is these games don't really have "universal" JRPG appeal like the classics did, for very obvious reasons.

[IL_Davu]

Originally posted by Tr0w:

Originally posted by IL_Davu:

And where do you find sales data in one day? lol

Anyway, Rebirth sold 3 million copies in the first week it was released (the only data we have), and that's a great result.
Those are the numbers it used to make when it was strong on consoles. As I mentioned, it's a Final Fantasy game that, unlike many other titles, continues to sell over the years (the forecast is that it will make 15 million in total in the coming years, considering it sold 3 million in one week).

Being first on three PC stores simultaneously had never happened for a porting post released game (but we're talking about an exceptional game).

For example, look at titles like The Last of Us, Uncharted, Days Gone, etc. No one really cared about Sony games on PC (because being older titles, they didn't want to buy them at full price)

It fell down the steam top sellers like a brick dude, at one point it was below Veilguard...
"exceptional game" if Marvels Final Farcreed: Bloatware Edition constitutes an "exceptional" game then i'm the Wizard of Oz

Yeah, my friend, we're talking about an exceptional game that won't be seen for years...

anyway, Marvel, etc. Are you sure you didn't get the wrong game? This is a remake of a game from '97 lol.

(By the way, Veilgard, that you say did so well... Have you seen that they're laying off everyone since it did so great, right?)

PS But if you want to write, don't waste my time talking about game sales after less than 24 hours... 2 we're talking about Veilgard that made 1 million across all platforms (not just PC, but consoles, etc.)And they are laying off more than half of the studio , so don't waste my time with absurdities if you want to write lol."

[Faiyez]

Originally posted by Faiyez:

Final Fantasy VII - 14.10 million sales
Final Fantasy VIII - 9.60 million+
Final Fantasy X & X-2 - 20.80 million
Final Fantasy XV - 10.00 million+
Final Fantasy VII Remake - 7.00 million
Final Fantasy XVI - 3.00 million

It's a huge drop off and frankly impossible to spin as something positive.

https://gamerant.com/final-fantasy-7-rebirth-pc-port-steam-sales-player-count-estimates/

Square cannot be that happy about a few hundred thousand sales on steam after publicly stating that sales fell short of expectations.

Any subsequent statement about being being satisfied with sales is tantamount to a HUGE lowering of standards. What's more, it can't be taken seriously considering modern games and development costs are the highest they've ever been and the costs dwarf old games by orders of magnitude.

The fanboys simply don't make sense.

I want the kool aid that the industry analyst is drinking, btw. I am convinced you need to be on hard drugs to see this game release on PC without DRM protection, watch the game get absolutely smothered on the torrent tracker, and still spin the paltry sales estimate into something positive.

[Mike]

Originally posted by Faiyez:

Originally posted by Faiyez:

Final Fantasy VII - 14.10 million sales
Final Fantasy VIII - 9.60 million+
Final Fantasy X & X-2 - 20.80 million
Final Fantasy XV - 10.00 million+
Final Fantasy VII Remake - 7.00 million
Final Fantasy XVI - 3.00 million

It's a huge drop off and frankly impossible to spin as something positive.

https://gamerant.com/final-fantasy-7-rebirth-pc-port-steam-sales-player-count-estimates/

Square cannot be that happy about a few hundred thousand sales on steam after publicly stating that sales fell short of expectations.

Any subsequent statement about being being satisfied with sales is tantamount to a HUGE lowering of standards. What's more, it can't be taken seriously considering modern games and development costs are the highest they've ever been and the costs dwarf old games by orders of magnitude.

The fanboys simply don't make sense.

I want the kool aid that the industry analyst is drinking, btw. I am convinced you need to be on hard drugs to see this game release on PC without DRM protection, watch the game get absolutely smothered on the torrent tracker, and still spin the paltry sales estimate into something positive.

You're comparing LIFE-TIME sales for games that have been out for many YEARS, even DECADES, going all the way back to the 1990s, when FF7 practically served as the proto-type for what a AAA game was or could be. That was a very different time. The jRPG was seen as more prestigious before the market became saturated, just as they had to compete with other kinds of AAA story-driven games.

In 1997, to play a game like FF7, with that story-telling scope and ambition at that level of production budget, you pretty much had to play...FF7. There wasn't much else like it. The game in many ways inspired would become the brand's competition, and the marketplace is now much more crowded. And even more than money, peoples' TIME is limited. We can only play so many games each year. Rebirth, for instance, was mostly what I played over '24.

Or, in the case of 15, there was such a lengthy wait after the trilogy of FF13 that demand for a new title not staring Lightning was at a fever pitch, and the game was heavily marketed for quite a while in the years leading up.

FF16 has likely sold somewhere between 5-6 million based on more recent figures/estimates. 3 million was the ballpark figure for around its first week. Square Enix's projections were overblown for over the shorter-run. Life-time sales for that title will probably be quite respectable.

FF7 Rebirth itself could very possibly do 10 million+ when we revisit this in 10 years. You'll likely have Switch 2 versions garnering many more sales in Japan. And the trilogy as a whole, total sales from 2020 on, including remasters and repackaged editions featuring all three titles together, could easily reach 20 million in long-term, life-time sales. It's very convenient for your agenda to conflate short-term and long-term sales, while breezily eliding the kind of cultural/historical analysis that would put things into fuller context. This project is going to have legs--you can count on that.

[Tr0w]

Originally posted by IL_Davu:

Originally posted by Tr0w:

It fell down the steam top sellers like a brick dude, at one point it was below Veilguard...
"exceptional game" if Marvels Final Farcreed: Bloatware Edition constitutes an "exceptional" game then i'm the Wizard of Oz

Yeah, my friend, we're talking about an exceptional game that won't be seen for years...

anyway, Marvel, etc. Are you sure you didn't get the wrong game? This is a remake of a game from '97 lol.

(By the way, Veilgard, that you say did so well... Have you seen that they're laying off everyone since it did so great, right?)

PS But if you want to write, don't waste my time talking about game sales after less than 24 hours... 2 we're talking about Veilgard that made 1 million across all platforms (not just PC, but consoles, etc.)And they are laying off more than half of the studio , so don't waste my time with absurdities if you want to write lol."

I never said it did so well, i said this game did so poorly it fell below a game so poor it's mocked globally. There is nothing exceptional about Rebirth unless you meant it's exceptional for a game not made by Ubisoft, Insomniac, or Suckerpunch to be this bloated with boring pointless activities. Or that it fell off exceptionally quickly on PC for a game from such a big franchise, and you won't have to wait long for another title to match that as we have TLoU Part 2 coming.

[windsea888]

The only thing exceptional about Rebirth or Remake is the graphical quality and some of the handful of good scenes that are faithful to the original. The rest is absolute padding like Chadley and his towers or all the terrible otaku dialogue that feels like it was written by 20 different interns.

They should have just made a movie of the original ff7 in these graphics or a really cool TV series across a few seasons. And some sort of accompanying set of vignette games if people want some gameplay with the models. This game has no idea what it is trying to be and is just more more more more. Quantity is not quality.

They probably lose so many sales to peiople just watching YouTube clips of the game because the game is unapologetically eye candy first and foremost.

[babobaka]

Originally posted by Mike:

You're comparing LIFE-TIME sales for games that have been out for many YEARS, even DECADES, going all the way back to the 1990s, when FF7 practically served as the proto-type for what a AAA game was or could be. That was a very different time. The jRPG was seen as more prestigious before the market became saturated, just as they had to compete with other kinds of AAA story-driven games.

In 1997, to play a game like FF7, with that story-telling scope and ambition at that level of production budget, you pretty much had to play...FF7. There wasn't much else like it. The game in many ways inspired would become the brand's competition, and the marketplace is now much more crowded. And even more than money, peoples' TIME is limited. We can only play so many games each year. Rebirth, for instance, was mostly what I played over '24.

Or, in the case of 15, there was such a lengthy wait after the trilogy of FF13 that demand for a new title not staring Lightning was at a fever pitch, and the game was heavily marketed for quite a while in the years leading up.

FF16 has likely sold somewhere between 5-6 million based on more recent figures/estimates. 3 million was the ballpark figure for around its first week. Square Enix's projections were overblown for over the shorter-run. Life-time sales for that title will probably be quite respectable.

FF7 Rebirth itself could very possibly do 10 million+ when we revisit this in 10 years. You'll likely have Switch 2 versions garnering many more sales in Japan. And the trilogy as a whole, total sales from 2020 on, including remasters and repackaged editions featuring all three titles together, could easily reach 20 million in long-term, life-time sales. It's very convenient for your agenda to conflate short-term and long-term sales, while breezily eliding the kind of cultural/historical analysis that would put things into fuller context. This project is going to have legs--you can count on that.

Quite awful argument here.

1 - FF7 came out a full year after Resident Evil, which honestly had better graphics and character model than FF7. It was also more popular genre of being Action Adventure type of game, and FF7 still outsold the RE1 by double. It shows FF7 did not sell based on tech, but more based on it's artistic approach, venerable franchise name value, and large budget Sony marketing. I will admit it had incredible wow factor back then, but the blocky character model was still ugly even during that time, and it was butt of the joke. People already saw what 3D model can do back in those days with Virtua Fighter 2, Tekken, Resident Evil, etc. Outside of CG cut-scenes, FF7 did not excel in graphic department, although for JRPG genre, it was ahead of it's time.

2 - FF7 at the time of it's release, sold over 9 million during PS1 era. Considering it was $50 dollar game with much smaller video game market base + inflation, that is incredible number. FF7 broke sales records, when JRPG was considered niche market. FF6 sold around mid 2 million around the time of release of FF7, which was the next big JRPG of the time. It shows JRPG did not have such huge market like your claim. FF7 created the market for it, unlike modern Square that is killing JRPG market.

3 - Even if FF7 Remake reaches 10 million mark, that still shows it failed in comparison to FF7. RE2 sold around 5 million copies, RE2 Remake sold 15 million copies. That is appropriate scaling if you consider market growth and inflation. Go to inflation calculator and compare 1997 dollar to 2024 dollar. In order for FF7 Remake to have same impact of FF7, the sales number should've been 30 million copies during the time of it's launch, and 45 million over it's lifetime. If you look at games like Wukong, that appears to be reasonable number. In other words, FF16 selling only around 5~6 mil has same effect of selling 2 mil if it was released on PS1. Massive drop-off compared to the success Square used to enjoy. It shows FF franchise name is finally tainted enough where it is greatly affecting sales.

FF series is not what it once was is what you are proving. Square pretty much Star Wars'ed FF franchise. Star Wars Episode 7, 8, and 9 still maintained somewhat of high number, but once that spent all name value of Star Wars, the damage is starting to show on box office. Same is happening with FF series. Their failure with 13, 15, and 7 Remake is now starting to affect the sales.

[Tr0w]

Originally posted by babobaka:

Originally posted by Mike:

You're comparing LIFE-TIME sales for games that have been out for many YEARS, even DECADES, going all the way back to the 1990s, when FF7 practically served as the proto-type for what a AAA game was or could be. That was a very different time. The jRPG was seen as more prestigious before the market became saturated, just as they had to compete with other kinds of AAA story-driven games.

In 1997, to play a game like FF7, with that story-telling scope and ambition at that level of production budget, you pretty much had to play...FF7. There wasn't much else like it. The game in many ways inspired would become the brand's competition, and the marketplace is now much more crowded. And even more than money, peoples' TIME is limited. We can only play so many games each year. Rebirth, for instance, was mostly what I played over '24.

Or, in the case of 15, there was such a lengthy wait after the trilogy of FF13 that demand for a new title not staring Lightning was at a fever pitch, and the game was heavily marketed for quite a while in the years leading up.

FF16 has likely sold somewhere between 5-6 million based on more recent figures/estimates. 3 million was the ballpark figure for around its first week. Square Enix's projections were overblown for over the shorter-run. Life-time sales for that title will probably be quite respectable.

FF7 Rebirth itself could very possibly do 10 million+ when we revisit this in 10 years. You'll likely have Switch 2 versions garnering many more sales in Japan. And the trilogy as a whole, total sales from 2020 on, including remasters and repackaged editions featuring all three titles together, could easily reach 20 million in long-term, life-time sales. It's very convenient for your agenda to conflate short-term and long-term sales, while breezily eliding the kind of cultural/historical analysis that would put things into fuller context. This project is going to have legs--you can count on that.

Quite awful argument here.

1 - FF7 came out a full year after Resident Evil, which honestly had better graphics and character model than FF7. It was also more popular genre of being Action Adventure type of game, and FF7 still outsold the RE1 by double. It shows FF7 did not sell based on tech, but more based on it's artistic approach, venerable franchise name value, and large budget Sony marketing. I will admit it had incredible wow factor back then, but the blocky character model was still ugly even during that time, and it was butt of the joke. People already saw what 3D model can do back in those days with Virtua Fighter 2, Tekken, Resident Evil, etc. Outside of CG cut-scenes, FF7 did not excel in graphic department, although for JRPG genre, it was ahead of it's time.

2 - FF7 at the time of it's release, sold over 9 million during PS1 era. Considering it was $50 dollar game with much smaller video game market base + inflation, that is incredible number. FF7 broke sales records, when JRPG was considered niche market. FF6 sold around mid 2 million around the time of release of FF7, which was the next big JRPG of the time. It shows JRPG did not have such huge market like your claim. FF7 created the market for it, unlike modern Square that is killing JRPG market.

3 - Even if FF7 Remake reaches 10 million mark, that still shows it failed in comparison to FF7. RE2 sold around 5 million copies, RE2 Remake sold 15 million copies. That is appropriate scaling if you consider market growth and inflation. Go to inflation calculator and compare 1997 dollar to 2024 dollar. In order for FF7 Remake to have same impact of FF7, the sales number should've been 30 million copies during the time of it's launch, and 45 million over it's lifetime. If you look at games like Wukong, that appears to be reasonable number. In other words, FF16 selling only around 5~6 mil has same effect of selling 2 mil if it was released on PS1. Massive drop-off compared to the success Square used to enjoy. It shows FF franchise name is finally tainted enough where it is greatly affecting sales.

FF series is not what it once was is what you are proving. Square pretty much Star Wars'ed FF franchise. Star Wars Episode 7, 8, and 9 still maintained somewhat of high number, but once that spent all name value of Star Wars, the damage is starting to show on box office. Same is happening with FF series. Their failure with 13, 15, and 7 Remake is now starting to affect the sales.

RE2 Remake is at over 20 million copies now

[*******]

The original is still the best version sadly !!

ReBiRTH is an MINI GAME SIMULATOR !!!

NOt true to final fantasy its gameplay
There is more mini games then you actually fight monsters !!!!

I really wonder who came up with this design !

[Weltall8000]

Originally posted by Tr0w:

Originally posted by babobaka:

Quite awful argument here.

1 - FF7 came out a full year after Resident Evil, which honestly had better graphics and character model than FF7. It was also more popular genre of being Action Adventure type of game, and FF7 still outsold the RE1 by double. It shows FF7 did not sell based on tech, but more based on it's artistic approach, venerable franchise name value, and large budget Sony marketing. I will admit it had incredible wow factor back then, but the blocky character model was still ugly even during that time, and it was butt of the joke. People already saw what 3D model can do back in those days with Virtua Fighter 2, Tekken, Resident Evil, etc. Outside of CG cut-scenes, FF7 did not excel in graphic department, although for JRPG genre, it was ahead of it's time.

2 - FF7 at the time of it's release, sold over 9 million during PS1 era. Considering it was $50 dollar game with much smaller video game market base + inflation, that is incredible number. FF7 broke sales records, when JRPG was considered niche market. FF6 sold around mid 2 million around the time of release of FF7, which was the next big JRPG of the time. It shows JRPG did not have such huge market like your claim. FF7 created the market for it, unlike modern Square that is killing JRPG market.

3 - Even if FF7 Remake reaches 10 million mark, that still shows it failed in comparison to FF7. RE2 sold around 5 million copies, RE2 Remake sold 15 million copies. That is appropriate scaling if you consider market growth and inflation. Go to inflation calculator and compare 1997 dollar to 2024 dollar. In order for FF7 Remake to have same impact of FF7, the sales number should've been 30 million copies during the time of it's launch, and 45 million over it's lifetime. If you look at games like Wukong, that appears to be reasonable number. In other words, FF16 selling only around 5~6 mil has same effect of selling 2 mil if it was released on PS1. Massive drop-off compared to the success Square used to enjoy. It shows FF franchise name is finally tainted enough where it is greatly affecting sales.

FF series is not what it once was is what you are proving. Square pretty much Star Wars'ed FF franchise. Star Wars Episode 7, 8, and 9 still maintained somewhat of high number, but once that spent all name value of Star Wars, the damage is starting to show on box office. Same is happening with FF series. Their failure with 13, 15, and 7 Remake is now starting to affect the sales.

RE2 Remake is at over 20 million copies now

Guess it is better than OG FFVII.

[Sevrojin]

Originally posted by *******:

The original is still the best version sadly !!

ReBiRTH is an MINI GAME SIMULATOR !!!

NOt true to final fantasy its gameplay
There is more mini games then you actually fight monsters !!!!

I really wonder who came up with this design !

define true final fantasy because for like the last 8 games it hasnt been the normal atb system

[Tr0w]

Originally posted by Weltall8000:

Originally posted by Tr0w:

RE2 Remake is at over 20 million copies now

Guess it is better than OG FFVII.

I'm talking about Resident Evil, not Afterbirth

[Weltall8000]

Originally posted by Tr0w:

Originally posted by Weltall8000:

Guess it is better than OG FFVII.

I'm talking about Resident Evil, not Afterbirth

I know, RE2 Remake > OG FFVII.

[Mike]

Originally posted by babobaka:

Originally posted by Mike:

FF series is not what it once was is what you are proving. Square pretty much Star Wars'ed FF franchise. Star Wars Episode 7, 8, and 9 still maintained somewhat of high number, but once that spent all name value of Star Wars, the damage is starting to show on box office. Same is happening with FF series. Their failure with 13, 15, and 7 Remake is now starting to affect the sales.

That FF series is not what it once was (in terms of sales, for a certain period of its history) is PARTIALLY my own argument. I'm just giving different REASONS of WHY that's the case, which involves various factors not totally within SE's ability to control. That's why the post I responded to isn't actually all that meaningful or fair.

jRPGs are, generally speaking not going to sell like Madden and Call of Duty for reasons that are, in my opinion, more complex than "SE Star Wars'd the franchise," but I do think general over-saturation of these big, time-consuming games is a factor. Back in 1997 FF7 wasn't competing with games of like style and ambition to the extent that it is now. Now you can hand-wave that argument, but I think it's reductive not to consider the whole picture. That's all I'm saying.

And, again, my more nominal point, in terms of the sales figures that were posted, is that conflating short-term and long-term sales isn't really saying much, when Remake and Rebirth haven't been out for nearly as long as the other FF games you've comparing to. Pointing out that FFX and X2 sold 20 million when they've been on the market for going on three decades across half a dozen platforms over time, isn't really a fair comparison. Nor is short-changing FF!6's sales. Additionally, 14 and 15 have achieved quite significant sales and revenue as well.

Now, if you want to move goalposts, and point to other factors about why you think SE games suck now, while comparing apples to oranges in other ways, that's not a great argument either. I'm saying, "There was nothing quite like FF7 back in its day" and you're like, "Well, what about Tekken and Resident Evil and how popular they still are...." in other words, comparing to other things that have really nothing to do with the kind of game that FF7 was in terms of storytelling scope and ambition. There was nothing quite like it. Saying that Tekken is comparable because both games had 3D graphics or because RE had pre-renders has NOTHING to do with my argument. It's just calling attention to superficial similarities. Like MOST GAMES of that generation used 3D graphics. Most still didn't have the overall budget of FF7 at the time. The scope of it really was something.

You're guilty of the same fallacy as the person who posted sales. You're not comparing like-to-like because it's convenient to your presuppositions and bias. I'm like, well there was nothing like this dragon fruit on the market at the time, and you're like, well what about these oranges over here? They have seeds, too.

I get it. You don't like the new games. Message received. But piling on a bunch of additional information that has nothing to do with the SPECIFIC point I was making in response to a SPECIFIC point you were making (about sales) isn't a refutation of my argument. It's just obnoxious.

And just to point once again before this gets lost in overly-abrasive nonsense: FF7 Rebirth was the best-selling game on Steam for its week of release. It's doing very well!

[babobaka]

Originally posted by Mike:

That FF series is not what it once was (in terms of sales, for a certain period of its history) is PARTIALLY my own argument. I'm just giving different REASONS of WHY that's the case, which involves various factors not totally within SE's ability to control.

jRPGs are, generally, speaking not going to sell like Madden and Call of Duty for reasons that are, in my opinion, more complex than "SE Star Wars'd the franchise," but I do think general over-saturation of these big, time-consuming games is a factor. Back in 1997 FF7 wasn't competing with games of like style and ambition to the extent that it is now. Now you can hand-wave that argument, but I think it's reductive not to consider the whole picture. That's all I'm saying.

And, again, my more nominal point, in terms of the sales figures you posted, is that conflating short-term and long-term sales isn't really saying much, when Remake and Rebirth haven't been out for nearly as long as the other FF games you've comparing to. Pointing out that FFX and X2 sold 20 million when they've been on the market for going on three decades isn't really a fair comparison. Nor is short-changing FF!6's sales.

Now, if you want to move goalposts, and point to other factors about why you think SE games suck now, while comparing apples to oranges in other ways, that's not a great argument either. I'm saying, "There was nothing quite like FF7 back in its day" and you're like, "Well, what about Tekken and Resident Evil and how popular they still are...." in other words, comparing to other things that have really nothing to do with the kind of game that FF7 was in terms of storytelling scope and ambition. There was nothing quite like it. Saying that Tekken is comparable because both games had 3D graphics or because RE had pre-renders has NOTHING to do with my argument. It's just calling attention to superficial similarities. Like MOST GAMES of that generation used 3D graphics. Most still didn't have the overall budget of FF7 at the time. The scope of it really was something.
You're guilty of the same fallacy as when you conflated sales. You're not comparing like-to-like because it's convenient to your presuppositions and bias.

I get it. You don't like the new games. Message received. But piling on a bunch of additional information that has nothing to do with the SPECIFIC point I was making in response to a SPECIFIC point you were making (about sales) isn't a refutation of my argument. It's just obnoxious.

1 - JRPGs proven they can sell plenty well. OG FF7 and Pokemon proved it, by making JRPG the best selling genre for a while, becoming main trend in the industry.

2 - How am I conflating long term sales and short term sales, when I directly compared short term sales of both FF7 and FF16? FF7 sold over 9 million copies at the time of it's release. That is excluding PC sales of it's time. I also provided context of the dollar value + market share of the industry. It is YOU who is trying to hide poor sales of FF16 by directly comparing raw sales numbers without any context.

3 - I didn't even mention sales of FFX, so I'm not sure why you are bringing it up.

4 - Again putting words in my mouth. I didn't compare FF7 to Tekken or RE1 directly. I just mentioned that FF7 didn't perform well due to technical graphic reasons, but other factors. In terms of tech, other games previously released before FF7 already showed something more impressive was my point. Also I did mention massive marketing budget of Sony along with it, so I never denied that FF7 didn't enjoy massive budget. Your strawman argument is making your position weak here. I even mentioned FF7 was ahead of it's time compared to other JRPGs, which you are SUPPOSED to do in order to beat out competition. Which is something Square failed to do in recent years.

5 - I like plenty of new games, certainly not all. I can overlook a lot of flaws too. But if you are saying I dislike new FF games, you will be correct. Also I did plenty well refuting your argument, especially with your poor attempt to discredit OG FF7 sales number using raw number data comparison without any context, not to mention you did really poor job at it too when raw number shows OG FF7 vastly outsold any recent FF games. Put it in context, that number is even more impressive for OG FF7, and looks even worse for new FF games.