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games fun tho, I hope they do not listen to you
I wonder what SE will do if Expedition 33, a low budget mediocre game, ends up outselling FF7 Rebirth and FFXVI.
https://www.gamesradar.com/games/jrpg/clair-obscur-expedition-33-publisher-says-oblivion-remastered-didnt-seem-to-harm-us-at-all-it-just-drew-attention-to-quality-rpgs/
Yeah, looks like Expedition 33 is having great success. Good news for turn-based fans.
My question is if Square will get the correct message from this. Usually suits in Japan tends to get the wrong message from this.
What I hope they take from success of Expedition 33:
- There is a untapped market for turn-based gameplay.
- More serious tone that targets older audience works.
- AA budget can work.
- Anime style art works limits market size.
What I am afraid they will take from success of Expedition 33:
- Exclusive platform is why they failed (not learning anything from their own mistake and pushing all the blame just on platform limitation)
- Fans like older looking characters (only looking at superficial difference)
- French setting is popular
- Facial hair and curly hair is the trend
- Flat chested women are the trend
Seems like what the fans want is a story more like FF16 and gameplay more like the first half of Remake or the first 10% of Rebirth.
This point alone makes it really hard to properly compare and say the issue was the games. In fact, they've already said the issue wasn't the game but the exclusivity which is why they're changing their approach because they believe it resulted in lower than expected (though still quite good) sales for multiple games and not just this one.
Still, for a smaller studio 1m is impressive. They apparently did launch it at the reduced price to help boost sales to introduce their works for future titles to the world, or basically to get their name out there in essence.
Further, we have no idea what they spent on development. There are some inaccurate assumptions made off the 30 member team figure, which only consists of core team and is completely inaccurate, per their own credits roll.
Nah, both games have good story. The fact you vaguely trash the story without actual context already says a lot about your (lack of) argument.
I'm not sure it is "great news for turn-based fans".
The opinions about the combat appear to be quite mixed, but mostly leaning towards mediocre and even somewhat negative. The story, visual style, and music appear to be what is gripping most of the fans. At least from what I can gather looking online, and it makes sense from what I've seen of the gameplay it does "appear" to be ridiculously simple similar to other FF games like the OG FF 7, 6, etc.
In fact, the entire argument against SE regarding turn-based combat doesn't even make sense because they not only still release turn-based games regularly, but I'm pretty sure more than any other dev in the entire world on a consistent basis.
Anyways, for what its worth I think Sandfall Interactive is precisely the kind of shot the JRPG industry needs, even if it doesn't actually beat them in sales, much like Metaphor. We need more original thoughtful works that take creative risks, even if they're not perfect or industry leading titles.
Indeed, in just the last four years they've released the following NEW turn based RPGs:
-Bravely Default II
-Dungeon Encounters
-Voice of Cards: The Isle Dragon Roars
-Voice of Cards: The Forsaken Maiden
-Triangle Strategy (Tactical RPG but still fully turn based)
-Voice of Cards: The Beasts of Burden
-Various Daylife
-Octopath Traveler II
-Dragon Quest Monsters: The Dark Prince
-SaGa: Emerald Beyond
-Fantasian: Neo Dimension (granted only published later by SQEX, not originally on Apple Arcade)
As well as....
-Live A Live Remake
-Tactics Ogre Reborn
-Romancing SaGa 2: Revenge of the Seven
-Dragon Quest III HD-2D Remake
And of course a bunch of more straightforward remasters including FF1-6 (still more of a remake), both SaGa Frontiers, Chrono Cross....
Suffice it to say, SQEX is for sure the most steady AAA publisher of turn based RPGs out there. It's just not FF.
But even this game has flaws that come from the MMO corner. For example how your attacks always auto aim at an enemy.
This means you can't use stuff like focused thrust as a cool looking dash towards the left, to then approach your target from that side. It takes away a lot of control, and player options.
Since square has been attempting the action game thing, we've been telling them this and they keep doing it
that would be bad for Controllers, I prefer it this way.
But yeah, I like FFX too!
ok so they have about 400 professionals in the credit.
in comparison, Rebirth has 3,893 professionals in the credit.
Also no, FF7 Rebirth didn't fail due to exclusion. It failed due to lack of interest in the game from average gamers. Blaming exclusivity is a cop out, and weak excuse to admit that they no longer have the selling power they once had. FF franchise was once known to be a system seller. Blaming exclusivity is Square admitting they've fallen so far, they can no longer move systems.
As for Expedition 33, sure maybe they won't hit that 7 million mark. Rather unknown devs and unknown franchise with limited marketing reaching wide audience won't be easy.
But it did sell 1 million copies in 3 days, which is quite fast for indie title. Not as fast as FF7 Remake's 3.5 mil, but unlike FF7 Remake, Expedition 33 didn't have hype going into the launch, so who knows what the end result will be?
With Meta critic user rating reaching record breaking numbers, it is bound to have some word of mouth push.
It is great news for turn-based fans considering there is positive news regarding newest turn based game is receiving.
They's accomplished meta critic user score record, which should be something. Such news should work as positive marketing for them.
Turn based game gaining traction with positive news in the industry is the "great news for turn-based fans"
Also let's not pretend FF games had some incredible combat systems either. FF games were quite basic in terms of it's gameplay with very limited strategic depth. They are no Persona games. What always pushed FF games forward were stories and level design.
I never played FF games for gameplay, except for perhaps FFXI (MMORPG, so obviously) and FFXII. It was the story that always kept me there, and gameplay was there to just make me "feel" like I'm having an adventure.
And that was the RIGHT thing to do for Square. Complex gameplay with depth would've utterly ruined previous FF games, because it would've ruined pacing. FF games were successful because they were impeccable with pacing, and FF7 was the peak of that. Creating that sense of moving forward, feeling like you are going through difficult dungeons, and before getting too tired of that repetition, the game always threw you that carrot at the end of the stick with another plot point.
For that to be achieved, gameplay had to be simple and quick. It sometimes frustrates me to hear some people talk about gameplay needing to be incredibly complex in order for game to be great. That is not true. Xenosaga 2 had one of the more deep turn based combat that really required players to be strategic, and difficulty was balanced enough to really test the players. It was an awful experience. If this game was some roguelike game, where I am freely exploring, I would've loved that combat gameplay. However, it was a game with really complex plot, and I needed my memory fresh in order to connect the events and understand the plot. Gameplay slowing my progress down ended up becoming incredibly frustrating experience, instead of fun one.
Expedition 33's gameplay, I'm not a big fan of it because I'm not a fan of QTE. However, it is quite functional. For those people who enjoy real-time elements added to turn based games should enjoy it. Like fans of Legend of Dragoon, or Shadow Hearts gameplay. I always hated real-time aspect in turn based games, and FF franchise is the one that started it, so if you think FF game has great combat system, you really have no grounds to talk against Expedition 33's combat system. I, on the other hand, played FF games despite thinking combat gameplay kind of sucked, but was good enough and did it's job.
And we can certainly talk against SE when it comes to turn based games. They haven't released a good one other than remake/remaster of their old games.
When they did make a good enough game, they got the praise and success that matches the quality. Bravely Default found it's success, and Octopath Traveler found it's success, and I am Setsuna found mild success.
I actually think they were more successful than they deserved, which shows the market is hungry for just about anything, and no one really took benefit of it with proper effort.
Expedition 33 is also fairly low budget effort too, but at least the game showed they tried. Instead of cutesy art and plot to aim for niche audience, they tried to have more wide appeal and looks like it is working well enough to become great indie success.
Who cares if the game is turn based if the story is not on par with Squaresoft quality storytelling.
yes
If you want my personal opinion.
I thought FFXVI took things in right direction, but not far enough.
Story had good setting, but not the events. The world they created were interesting, but the conflict was not.
In the end, they story had the same problem FFXII had. Create interesting world with complex political structure, and then waste it by creating fetch quest for the crystals story.
This is Square's 2nd attempt to recapture the magic of Final Fantasy Tactics, but without Yasumi Matsuno, it's not going to work because SE simply don't have the talent to make it work.