Moonerang is seriously underperforming

[SilverLight]

I'm repeating myself at this point, already commented on this in a couple other threads, but the Moonerang spell is genuinely terrible. It almost confuses me, because in isolation, it seems like it would be fine. A piercing projectile that deals something like 60% of what Astral Orb does, but can hit targets twice because it returns. I don't know exact values, but I've had the 'rang, the orb, and Magic Missile without any upgrades equipped between them, and the 'rang dealt 60 per hit, Orbs were doing 100, and Missile did 140.

But the cooldown is slow enough that you can fire at least 2 Orbs in the same time. The targeting range feels awkward. Missile has about the same cooldown, but it only needs to hit once for its full damage. Orb ends up being much stronger on single targets, and Missile is better for piercing groups of enemies (especially if you get the split augment).

Its augments are terrible. I've seen the generic "targets enemies with the highest health" (which is a curse in its own right when you get to the big hermit crab shell guys), "lingers at furthest point," and "crits at furthest point" augments for it. But since this game only has movement controls and no method of aiming, you can't make the 'rang go where it would ideally actually hit enemies at the peak of its curve. This is the same problem with Necro Whirl, since the aim is going to semi-randomly choose where it's going to fire the spell, except it has about 1/3 the area of effect and cannot benefit from size/area increases.

Why can't the Moonerang get bigger? In fact, why doesn't it have an augment that increases the projectile's size for its entire duration? From the moment you throw it, it could grow larger and hit more enemies. That would also give an actual utility to the "lingers at furthest point" augment. Might also make the "crits at furthest point" augment actually worth taking, though I still believe it should be modified to crit for the entire backswing and not just the peak. Moonerang needs SOMETHING to give it an identity and some kind of power curve to justify it starting off feeling and performing worse than base Orbs and Missiles.

The fact that I did almost all of the "28 mission attempts" achievement just trying to clear one map on Severe difficulty, and couldn't even do that, then immediately got farther when I switched to Sun Mage on the exact same stage (still not complete, but reaching the 3rd objective was still more progress) tells me that it's the Moonerang start.

[BoltBlaster_Gianluca]

Thanks for sharing! We are aware that the Moonerang is a bit underpowered at the moment and are working on some solutions.

[Samro]

Originally posted by BoltBlaster_Gianluca:

Thanks for sharing! We are aware that the Moonerang is a bit underpowered at the moment and are working on some solutions.

my man

[nemoJoe]

Thanks for bringing this up, OP, and I'm glad devs are working on this. The only reason to ever pick this spell is to grind for skins, which is not really joyful.

[Unsalted]

I want it to bounce. What if it ricochets off walls or impacts or both?

It also should really pick up all the things.

[Gamerzilla]

It can be fixed if you give it the same augments as magic missile and orbs. Just have it split and fire off two more moonerangs at random enemies when it hits the first enemy. Get rid of the 'at max range' ones as they simply dont perform, and make them something like 'Moonerang now orbits the wizard as it moves away and returns, and moves 200% faster.' or 'Moonerang tags enemies that it hits on the way out, and then curves to hit those enemies on the way back if they are alive.'

[Sorostaran]

The max range spinner does way more damage than the split projectile does. The on-split damage attenuation is way too severe even after the buff. The effect looks strong, but the damage it does is weak.

[Gamerzilla]

Originally posted by Sorostaran:

The max range spinner does way more damage than the split projectile does. The on-split damage attenuation is way too severe even after the buff. The effect looks strong, but the damage it does is weak.

If that is the case, why is Magic missile or Orbs + 2-3 splits doing 3-5 times the damage of moonerang with the same upgrade levels?...

[Teljaxx]

Yeah, Moonerang is one of the main spells that I want to like, but feels bad to use. It looks cool, but its performance always disappoints.

Pretty much the only thing I've found that actually makes it seem good, is taking as many cooldown reductions as you can. if you throw enough Moonerangs at once, it can actually be pretty nice through sheer volume of fire. Just put up a wall of spinning blender blades that shred everything chasing you. But, it usually takes so many upgrades to get there, that outside of endless mode, you're going to have to sacrifice every other stat to get it to that point. So it still ends up being out-performed by all your other spells.

Plus, increasing its range can actually be a bad thing. Especially if you get the lingers at max range, or always crits at max range augments. Because it tends to hang out behind the enemies you want it to hit, wasting most of its damage potential.

I would increase its base range a bit, then replace its range increase upgrades with size increases.

Also, the suggestions to make it ricochet between enemies, or spiral out from the player, would be great new augments for it.

[Sorostaran]

Originally posted by Gamerzilla:

Originally posted by Sorostaran:

The max range spinner does way more damage than the split projectile does. The on-split damage attenuation is way too severe even after the buff. The effect looks strong, but the damage it does is weak.

If that is the case, why is Magic missile or Orbs + 2-3 splits doing 3-5 times the damage of moonerang with the same upgrade levels?...

That actually happens a lot where damage doesn't really matter (i.e. where enemies die too fast for the spinners to do much). Even on Moderate, though, by loop 10 (augments max out around loop 6-7, so that's with ALL the splits you can get for multiple loops already) it'll generally double Magic Missile damage, triple by loop 20. On Eternal Bond Hardcore obviously this will happen a lot sooner. Heck, even on non-Eternal Bond Hardcore you can out-damage Magic Missile quite easily if you just line up the spinners properly.

Also, get Lightning on Moonerang, not Fire for Campanelli's sake, folks. If I have to see one more Fire-infused Moonerang in pickup games...

[Gamerzilla]

Originally posted by Sorostaran:

Originally posted by Gamerzilla:

If that is the case, why is Magic missile or Orbs + 2-3 splits doing 3-5 times the damage of moonerang with the same upgrade levels?...

That actually happens a lot where damage doesn't really matter (i.e. where enemies die too fast for the spinners to do much). Even on Moderate, though, by loop 10 (augments max out around loop 6-7, so that's with ALL the splits you can get for multiple loops already) it'll generally double Magic Missile damage, triple by loop 20. On Eternal Bond Hardcore obviously this will happen a lot sooner. Heck, even on non-Eternal Bond Hardcore you can out-damage Magic Missile quite easily if you just line up the spinners properly.

Also, get Lightning on Moonerang, not Fire for Campanelli's sake, folks. If I have to see one more Fire-infused Moonerang in pickup games...

Except who cares? 95% of people dont play past 2-3 loops. Heck 99% of players doing coop dont even play eternal. Eternal is for grinding achieves, not for fun. Balancing a skill based on 2% of gameplay makes no sense.