Balance, Progression, and boss Hp tweaks have ruined Endless mode

[Riot Lightbulb]

So in the patch notes there was mention that from the beginning of Endless round 2 that monster HP is increased significantly. And that is certainly true. And although it was too easy that's for sure, as character strength grew quicker than the mobs it was easy to go true "endless".

However its now almost impossible to kill the boss on round 2. I just tried in single player and it had 4.7 million health! (without any bonus health)
This is a huge amount and is worse on MP because i think its more, but most of the time other people don't even come and help with the boss.
Not only that but it seems to take much less damage, is hit a lot less, takes less damage when stunned, and it is now almost impossible to do damage to him when stunned, as there is such a huge ball of mobs around him that you just have to keep running.

In fact, the run I just did, I lost because the mobs were pushed towards me so quickly it was impossible to out run them. I believe this is the extra move speed the mobs get to catch up to you. This is now just pushing mobs into you until you die.

Additionally, the exlplody boys no longer trigger each other causing a chain reaction which would clear large packs. I'm guessing this change was intentional, but with all the other changes have completely ruined the feel of the endless mode, The only thing to do now is ball them all up and run around them in a circle, triggering the outside explody boys. Its quite dull on the strategy now.

Exp gain seems to have been nurfed as well. I dont think this is just due to the increased mob hp, meaning less is being killed, because in the runs i have done, I am still picking up vast amount of xp balls, but the bar is barely moving, and i was on +91% bonus.
Much past lvl50 now is just so slow.

So while I know balancing needed to be done, being forced to loose before the end of the second round is what i call a "forced loss". The ramp in HP is just too high now. Knowing the end of round 2 is most likely going to be the end is not "endless". "Endless" is just keeping a head of the enemies if you have build your character well, and keep getting those legendary.

On the subject of luck, It seems like it gets nurfed the longer the game goes on too. towards the end of the runs (last was 20 luck others similar) the later levels it just goes back to common and rare.

Lastly the new relics offer amazing ways to heal, but the damage incoming from mobs is insane. And armour.... does that do anything? I have taken so much armour (even before this patch) and it just seems to make no difference to survive-ability.

Overall this patch just seems to have wanted people to nurf endless into the ground. So much so its not really and endless mode anymore.

[F4LC0N]

Yea we also failed on Round 2 boss with 3 people. The mobs built up too much because we couldn't kill him.

[show]

yea, too much relics now, without relic which give you 1%att for 1 armor and -0.25% run speed its almost impossible to kill boss now) today i played few times endless mode and when i get relic (1%att|1armor|-0.25%speed) and +10 armor for every quest i easily goes to 4th wave, then i tired and off. Last game i wasnt lucky and didnt get those relics, and we are stuck on 2nd wave boss, trying to kill him almost 20mins until they speed become +1000% and then we are dead)

it just become not relax game anymore, i guess we need update to 5 relics now, or delete ♥♥♥♥♥♥ relics, then you can get what you need in every or almost every game

[Nifelheimer]

ive been around for long now!
come sit down at the fire boys and I shall tell you the story when i started playing the game, once upon a time.....

1: I managed to get to level 100 on normal mode (back then this was the only mode)
2: with enough dodge you could basically dodge almost anything.
3: the more armour you had, the stronger you got with the relic, you could actually just stand still and almost everything would die.
4: getting exp upgrades meant you could level up faster and become stronger, now its just a some useless numbers that you wont change your game much, at least not noticeable.

Game isn't as fun anymore sadly. From being a god among insects to being an insect fighting for its life....

[Hollow_Slayer]

Well I got inti round 3 Bossfight and I can tell you it is impossible. His health pool is so large, that you can't kill him in time before the enemies get a speed boost too high to flee anymore. Playing with one skill only makes it more doable, but get's frustratingly one sided like you mentioned. Running in circles until he's finally dead. The new enemie health pool is honestly too high now to play to a point were you get every skill fully skilled with special buffs :( which I never tried before and now never reach.

[Dragkna]

Is this a hardcore difficulty problem? because on moderate difficulty I literally sat still and afk'd the boss... There's so many ways to heal now it's nuts. Armor even works. Game seems fine to me, just way too slow. A game speed setting is really needed. (maybe do the one spell thing and don't pick toxin for more damage)

[Lionheartwolf]

I agree with most of this. I wouldn't say the boss is impossible. It seems just as difficult (at least in solo), the problem is that it just takes too long. You end up kiting him for an unreasonable amount of time, and while I usually go 6 or more loops, I just couldn't be bothered after loop 3. HP pools are so high now that by the time you finally kill the leftovers from the loop before you are about halfway through the next loop.

It's just too much HP, and it doesn't change the gameplay. I do think they needed more HP to a degree, but this much HP certainly make stationary builds impossible. It's basically pointless to take relics that slow you down or expect you to stand still for more damage.

Another thing I noticed, and maybe I never noticed it before because the boss died too fast is that his only attack makes the fight more annoying than it should be now that there are so many mobs that just don't die. When he attacks he has to stop moving, and that causes him to get lost in the flood of mobs he is with, and when your attacks have limited range it means you really have to take some creative pathing just so he can get caught up to you again. This can be especially frustrating when his HP bar goes yellow and he is so far away from you that you just have to let it go by, and this extends the fight for just that much longer.

I don't know what the devs were thinking, or the bad feedback they got to let them believe this was better, but it just ruins endless completely. It's just not worth your time. I think they need to revisit what makes this game difficult because HP isn't it.

Some objectives have also become a bit more annoying. The golden bug died too fast before, but now it's just stubbornly sitting there waiting to die. It's not a challenge, it's just annoying. Standing in the circle means you have to exit the circle a few times but otherwise the same. Kicking the balls is worse, but honestly it was never good. I'd much rather see it come up less because it literally feels like I have to do it every single loops without fail.

Either way. I hope somebody hears this and takes it into consideration. It's a fun game, it's definitely my favorite to return to, but I just can't be bothered to sit around for 343 minutes (which I did unintentionally when I quit out on loop 3) just trying to get a few loops into an endless run. That's just too long, and not enough progress. I don't want to give it a review until these bugs are worked out because right now I just couldn't recommend it despite me absolutely recommending it in the past.

[Skullivan Bones]

glad to see me and my friends are not alone in our feelings on endless mode. the endless changes also make dark useless once you get to the second wave boss fight because the enemies wont turn until their health hits a certain threshold (at least that's how it appears) so after the first boss wave you just stop turning things, and the spell becomes useless.

we usually make it to wave 6 or 7 on endless on hardcore, now we can barely get past the second fight on severe.

endless has been absolutely GUTTED by the mob health change.

[show]

Originally posted by Dragkna:

Is this a hardcore difficulty problem? because on moderate difficulty I literally sat still and afk'd the boss... There's so many ways to heal now it's nuts. Armor even works. Game seems fine to me, just way too slow. A game speed setting is really needed. (maybe do the one spell thing and don't pick toxin for more damage)

yea, and also severe difficulty. It's still posible as i said before, only if you get best damage combo with 2 or 3 relics (1%dmg for 1 armor + 10 armor for quest, and something like 25% crit dmg for reviving teammate or 1armor for each level you have. If you didnt get them this become impossible. And with new relics you have to be very lucky to get those even if you roll every time twice, because too much garbage relics we have now

[Easelm]

Originally posted by Riot Lightbulb:

So in the patch notes there was mention that from the beginning of Endless round 2 that monster HP is increased significantly. And that is certainly true. And although it was too easy that's for sure, as character strength grew quicker than the mobs it was easy to go true "endless".

However its now almost impossible to kill the boss on round 2. I just tried in single player and it had 4.7 million health! (without any bonus health)
This is a huge amount and is worse on MP because i think its more, but most of the time other people don't even come and help with the boss.
Not only that but it seems to take much less damage, is hit a lot less, takes less damage when stunned, and it is now almost impossible to do damage to him when stunned, as there is such a huge ball of mobs around him that you just have to keep running.

In fact, the run I just did, I lost because the mobs were pushed towards me so quickly it was impossible to out run them. I believe this is the extra move speed the mobs get to catch up to you. This is now just pushing mobs into you until you die.

Additionally, the exlplody boys no longer trigger each other causing a chain reaction which would clear large packs. I'm guessing this change was intentional, but with all the other changes have completely ruined the feel of the endless mode, The only thing to do now is ball them all up and run around them in a circle, triggering the outside explody boys. Its quite dull on the strategy now.

Exp gain seems to have been nurfed as well. I dont think this is just due to the increased mob hp, meaning less is being killed, because in the runs i have done, I am still picking up vast amount of xp balls, but the bar is barely moving, and i was on +91% bonus.
Much past lvl50 now is just so slow.

So while I know balancing needed to be done, being forced to loose before the end of the second round is what i call a "forced loss". The ramp in HP is just too high now. Knowing the end of round 2 is most likely going to be the end is not "endless". "Endless" is just keeping a head of the enemies if you have build your character well, and keep getting those legendary.

On the subject of luck, It seems like it gets nurfed the longer the game goes on too. towards the end of the runs (last was 20 luck others similar) the later levels it just goes back to common and rare.

Lastly the new relics offer amazing ways to heal, but the damage incoming from mobs is insane. And armour.... does that do anything? I have taken so much armour (even before this patch) and it just seems to make no difference to survive-ability.

Overall this patch just seems to have wanted people to nurf endless into the ground. So much so its not really and endless mode anymore.

Yep. We're playing right now and three times we've failed at round 2 making it impossible to beat it. Once on hardcore and twice on severe. Most definitely has changed for the worst. Don't understand why, but I hope they changed the scaling back to be more reasonable. 5-7 million HP on the boss at wave 2 is crazy impossible.

Edit:
Tried on one spell and we barely beat wave 2. It's LITERALLY impossible.

[Fishy Snake]

My friends and I also agree; in a 4-player run on the second loop (if you would call having defeated Sol'Phish once already to be on the second loop) on Moderate difficulty, we were around level 45-ish probably and we ran around attacking Sol'Phish and his army and only got through about 1/4 of his health bar in 10 minutes (and perished shortly after). I generally never find damage sponge enemies and bosses fun, and I find making such little progress over time in a game like this really unfun.

[Twopud]

Defiantly not impossible just finished 3rd boss using the 1 weapon mode with 2 players. Would be easier with other weapons as no healing weapon. Absolutely love the new element and vengeful sprout is an awesome healer. I stopped playing for a while as got bored but the new patch has dragged myself and husband right back in. Looking forward to working out which new weapons compliment each other and which wizards are the best wizard partnerships to aid each other.

[Zenma]

OP I agree 100% with everything you said endless just seems to last until round 2.

[Easelm]

Originally posted by Twopud:

Defiantly not impossible just finished 3rd boss using the 1 weapon mode with 2 players. Would be easier with other weapons as no healing weapon. Absolutely love the new element and vengeful sprout is an awesome healer. I stopped playing for a while as got bored but the new patch has dragged myself and husband right back in. Looking forward to working out which new weapons compliment each other and which wizards are the best wizard partnerships to aid each other.

Yes, with one skill it's doable of course. However, with multiple skills it is definitely impossible on severe and hardcore, even if you try to go pure damage and cooldown.

Tried with 3 of my friends for 8 hours straight last night and the closest we got passed wave 2 was in the one skill mode.

[Twopud]

Originally posted by Easelm:

Originally posted by Twopud:

Defiantly not impossible just finished 3rd boss using the 1 weapon mode with 2 players. Would be easier with other weapons as no healing weapon. Absolutely love the new element and vengeful sprout is an awesome healer. I stopped playing for a while as got bored but the new patch has dragged myself and husband right back in. Looking forward to working out which new weapons compliment each other and which wizards are the best wizard partnerships to aid each other.

Yes, with one skill it's doable of course. However, with multiple skills it is definitely impossible on severe and hardcore, even if you try to go pure damage and cooldown.

Tried with 3 of my friends for 8 hours straight last night and the closest we got passed wave 2 was in the one skill mode.

I agree .Not tried multiple weapons in endless mode. One weapon is defiantly the way to go. Just did over 5 hours with 3 players. One specked as DPS, one tank and one healer. We got to lvl 15 then had to retire as it was late. We stood together in last round and didnt move to see how far we could get. Managed an entire lvl and wiped on the boss, Reallly loving new update.

[Omulrian]

Dark, Dark seems to the be the combo. Any other combo seems to not work.
With the Dark, Dark infusion you need to circle the boss into converted mobs as that is were the damage is.

All other combos feel too weak damage wise.
Ice Ice while does freeze doesn't mean anything when the boss just pushes them as they get "forced moved into range" of you.

I know Falling stars with Dark, Dark infusion on Single spell works.
Solo, I defeated the third round boss in about 10 seconds. (approx 50000 dps)
2 players (other player went plants), got to round 5 before needing to go to bed (just over 101 332 dps with 528 265 888 total damage)