Goblins and Trolls

[Frog-Whisperer]

A bit of fun speculation along the lines of "Griotte is a possum"

The fact that goblins and trolls are in this game always kind of bugged me. Like I know they're very standard fantasy archetypes, but Armello sold me on the premise of an all-animal fantasy style world. I was of the opinion that trolls should be creatures like bears, or if, in the case, bears are not applicable, then boars or corrupted beast-bears or some variant thereof.

Even the banes, complete creation of Armello, have that root in real-world ravens and crows. In terms of "rottyness", the goblins seem more linked to it than trolls are, but unlike the banes they seem like their own separate identity apart from the rot.

So then, what are they? Are we just to assume that they look the same as all fantasy trolls and goblins? In a world of talking animals, is there any animal left that could possibly fill this role? Well, there is one. An animal that so far has not been seen in Armello, despite being a staple of the genre it inhabits? An animal common not only in Europe, but throughout the world?

Humans. You probably guessed it but I'm talking about humans. Adults are the trolls and packs of children are the goblins.

I don't know how much sense this makes, but it goes a long way in making those two micro-enemies a whole lot more creepy if you ask me. In a world of socialised and intelligent animals, "feral" humans would be absolutely horrifying monsters.

Imagine you're River, hiking alone through a blizzard on a mountain. You spot a figure through the snow on the next hill, standing tall and looking directly at you. It is completely naked and covered in hair (not fur), and it is staring at you with piercing blue eyes. You draw your bow, but it turns and ambles off down the hillside.
Or you're Amber, exploring a dungeon when you hear scratches and whispers behind you. You turn around with your torch blazing, but nothing is there. You swear you saw a tiny hand disappear behind a rock, but Guppy's call from up ahead distracts you.

Enjoy that mental image the next time you get a goblin/troll quest

(As I was writing this I had a thought that chimpanzees/gorillas could just as easily be the trolls with monkeys and baboons being the goblins, but thats not as fun)

[Amalgamdragon]

Creepy, yet could work

[HaateXIII]

<3 this. This is going to be my new headcanon.

[Meneluma]

You know if one's to really complain about fantasy archetypes in Armello then they should address the elephant in the room, or should I say dragon in the room?
Because like trolls and goblins they used to be also limited to random stuff most people wouldn't take notice of, mountain tiles having names such as Dragon's Nest, like the goblins and trolls appearing only in quests that most people don't seem to read, but then came Road to 2.0. and they started stuffing dragons in more conspicious locations.

Also how on earth would the creatures tell apart hair from fur when there's a lack of mammals lacking fur with what little there is to be considered hair, sans the stranger.

[Frog-Whisperer]

Hmm good point, I always just pushed them aside given that the banes largely fill the role of "huge terrifying flying beast of evil that breathes some kind of deadly gas"
But even then dragons would feel less out of place than trolls and goblins do. Dragons are largely animal-based, and they wouldn't feel too out of place in the world (ReptileClanWhen?), but given that goblins and trolls are more diversions of a humanoid form, they would stick out more to me. For example, a gryphon would be a decent fit in the world of Armello, but a centaur would not.

I think the difference between hair and fur would be fairly noticable, at least on a close inspection. With fur, wolves, bears, badgers, etc, are absolutely covered, there's no part of their body that is visible bare skin, and if you shaved them they would look drastically different (look up pictures of shaved bears, or just, Sargon I guess, and the Stranger as you mention)
But with humans (even "feral" ones), the hair wouldn't be absolute. You'd still have eeirely pale faces and hands, and what hair there would be on the body would be thin and easy to see through

(As a side note this thread was apparently created at 6am, and I have no memory of it. I like to think the Stranger possessed me)

[Meneluma]

Originally posted by Frog-Whisperer:

(As a side note this thread was apparently created at 6am, and I have no memory of it. I like to think the Stranger possessed me)

We've certaintly heard of sleepwalking, but sleepblogging might be a new one, leave cameras on for the night for science.

[Frog-Whisperer]

Twiss snuck into my dorm during the night and posted to the steam forums. More at 11

[Meeky]

On goblins:

I think it's better to imagine them as spirits, which seems to be the intent, sort of. They're bad, perhaps Rot-related little creatures that probably like things like riddles, pranks, and "games" like the choice they give the player. Goblins as little dudes with spears only became a thing when Tolkein made that a thing, really (and really they were just smaller orcs).

On trolls:

I personally think trolls can work quite well depending on their depiction. Big, hulking, gangly creatures covered in knotted, hard flesh that regenerate? Grotesque noses? Eating Armello's citizens, etc? I don't see why this can't be a thing.

On dragons:

I actually feel as if dragons fit less than the others *because* they're so animalistic. If everyone is animals in Armello, then your monsters probably shouldn't just be animals, too. But with that said, they seem to be in the lore now, and I think that's fine.

[Frog-Whisperer]

If we're honest, most fantasy tropes only became a thing when Tolkien made them a thing

[Frog-Whisperer]

I don't think the dragons would be monsters either though, more like some kind of ancient race of "people" that has long gone extinct/disappeared

[noelwym]

Originally posted by Frog-Whisperer:

I don't think the dragons would be monsters either though, more like some kind of ancient race of "people" that has long gone extinct/disappeared

Or maybe to the people of Armello, the bones of dinosaurs were thought to be those of dragons.

[Sauvagess]

Where exactly are goblins and trolls depicted in the game and/or universe exactly? If you're speaking about the secret event and flavor texts among the game's board/cards, then that's highly ambigous.

A "goblin" is merely a "small and grotesque, mischievous or outright malicious monsterous creature." I have seen goblins all over of every shape and make. I've seen literally just tiny humans with nothing different about them other than skin color, and I've seen little fuzzy Fox/pig hybrids. I highly doubt the goblins in Armello are like World of Warcraft, and more akin to...uh...that one...Disney movie that depicted them as basically anthro bats? I forget what it's called.

On the other hand, a "troll" is largely nondescript altogether, they're earthly beings, practically overlapping with "golems" in the sense that trolls are inherently dangerous by definition and attack every other species and sometimes even each other. Sometimes they don't even have faces.

They don't have to be humanoids, in fact LoG already said there were no humanoids in this world. They also said there were no birds either, aside from the Rot taking the form of a "monsterous raven," so there's your key base for what monsters are.

[Meeky]

Well, minor correction: birds do exist in Armello. They're just non-intelligent and are a source of food is my understanding. I'm *pretty sure* we've seen birds mentioned in Armello.

Otherwise, what the heck would wolves eat? Chew on that. (Haha, chew.)

With that in mind, I think it's perfectly reasonable that trolls may look vaguely humanoid, but that doesn't mean they do necessarily. Goblins, though... I still think they're nasty little spirits of some kind.

[noelwym]

Just thought about it. The goblins of Armello could simply look like the yokai of Japanese legends, supernatural creatures that can take on any form including foxes and cats.