New rabbit clan ring insignificant

[Smug Blue Dragon]

The math:

Adds 10% to the chance of succeeding a quest. This means that 1/10 quest rolls with it you will succeed, but only because of the ring. Other successes or failures unaffected (i.e just because you won a quest reward, doesn't mean the ring changed the result)
Each match has 4 possible quest rolls, but not every game you will complete every quest, or even care about every quest reward. Assuming you do, however:

Probability of the ring having no influence on quest rewards: 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 = 65.61%, or a 34.39% chance that the ring will provide you with at least one quest reward.

Keeping in mind that this assumes 4 quests completed (average will always be lower), and that some quest rewards simply won't be useful to you (particularly if you often choose based on the stat reward) it's not hard to see how rarely this ring will benefit the player.

One counterargument I could imagine is that a particularly good quest reward is more powerful than what a ring is intended to provide. This would not seem to be an issue to me, as many quest rewards will either be useless in the context of a match, or simply not terribly powerful.

I would also argue that if a ring or amulet is in the game, the odds should be over 50% that it will at least influence the match in some way, or there should be some way for the players own decisions to ensure it's relevance (as there is with other, powerful rings). Otherwise it feels pretty bad to eqiup something supposedly beneficial in the hopes that maybe this match it will do something for you.

Suggestion:

In keeping the same design for the ring, the only way to really buff it is to raise it's number. Raising it to 20% would improve the odds of providing at least one reward to 59%, which would put it into the territory of providing it's benefit more often than not if someone picks quests for rewards and focuses on completing them all.

[noelwym]

I happened to be thinking about Spinel not too long ago. It never seemed that worth it to equip the ring considering how it doesn't guarantee benefits unlike more reliable rings like Pink Topaz or Emerald.

[StoryMode]

I've used this ring a few times now - I really like it. I try my best to go for quests every game, and I do find myself balancing reward vs stat bonus. If I would normally only have a 50% chance to succeed in a quest, it boosts it to 60%, a very helpful edge. It basically adds another success icon to the quest test and removes a failure icon. A simpler way to think about it. No need to overthink it. It's a ring that benefits the questers like myself =P

[Durzlla]

20% would probably make it way stronger than other rings though, I feel like at 10% it’s a very nice buff for people trying to get followers, treasures and stones from their quests and give you a HUGE edge, can also make it so you can attempt the reward on quests involving a stat you dont have a lot of, and since rabbits are pretty jack of all trades that’s helpful.

[Tei]

While I agree that ring is pretty bad, I also think it shouldn't be buffed or at least not by just increasing the current bonus. The rabbit clan already has some of the best and easiest to use rings in the game. Sunstone provides a frankly ridiculous combat and peril buff. Topaz is an insane gold ring for a clan that is already rolling in cash. Rainbow quartz is a completely passive magic ring. Tha rabbits already have their consistent, boring "meta" rings.

Spinel is the gambling man's ring. It's for players who want to bet on the single potentially game winning payoff instead of what's usually less impactful but more frequent effects. It's a more extreme version of picking onyx, moonstone or rubellite over celestite for the wolf clan. Just like the heroes, there are different rings for different people. Spinel is a bad ring that I'll never use, but it's the obvious pick for any lovable madmen who find sunstone, rainbow quartz and topaz unattractive.

[FableNights]

Originally posted by Tei:

While I agree that ring is pretty bad, I also think it shouldn't be buffed or at least not by just increasing the current bonus. The rabbit clan already has some of the best and easiest to use rings in the game. Sunstone provides a frankly ridiculous combat and peril buff. Topaz is an insane gold ring for a clan that is already rolling in cash. Rainbow quartz is a completely passive magic ring. Tha rabbits already have their consistent, boring "meta" rings.

Spinel is the gambling man's ring. It's for players who want to bet on the single potentially game winning payoff instead of what's usually less impactful but more frequent effects. It's a more extreme version of picking onyx, moonstone or rubellite over celestite for the wolf clan. Just like the heroes, there are different rings for different people. Spinel is a bad ring that I'll never use, but it's the obvious pick for any lovable madmen who find sunstone, rainbow quartz and topaz unattractive.

Just because the Rabbit's already have the 2nd best ring set in the game (1st being bandits) that doesn't mean Spinel should be bad for the idea of it being bad. It geniunely needs a buff.

(My suggestion would be to guarantee 1 quest reward of your choice, but I already know everyone would say that's OP for the sake of saying it's OP)

And if you want to "gamble" in Armello, just go prestige w/ diamond, you don't need a crappy ring to do that.

[Tei]

Originally posted by LunarFrost:

Just because the Rabbit's already have the 2nd best ring set in the game (1st being bandits) that doesn't mean Spinel should be bad for the idea of it being bad. It geniunely needs a buff.

(My suggestion would be to guarantee 1 quest reward of your choice, but I already know everyone would say that's OP for the sake of saying it's OP)

And if you want to "gamble" in Armello, just go prestige w/ diamond, you don't need a crappy ring to do that.

It isn't bad for the sake of being bad. It's bad because it does something very unique in terms of rings and has high potential. Spinel is bad for the same reason rubellite was bad when it first came out. The developers are cautious about the game's balance. Sometimes they over or underestimate things, but that doesn't change the intent or reason.

Even if your suggestion wouldn't be op, it would be a ring that just removes all risk or thought from situations where the developers clearly want there to be risks and thought. Something like rerolling the 3 quests the game gives you for different ones in addition to its current effect would be more interesting than just grabbing the first really good treasure or follower you see.

There's nothing gambling about diamond or going for prestige from the onset. Those don't have any chance of translating into a sizable advantage for you. It's just you being passive and hoping everybody else fails.

[Durzlla]

I feel like a lot of people are undervaluing how much of a power swing it is to complete your quest AND receive the reward...

[Sandling]

As an idea, perhaps 10% additional as a base, and 10% additional for every previous quest you did not succeed?

[Smug Blue Dragon]

Originally posted by Durzlla:

I feel like a lot of people are undervaluing how much of a power swing it is to complete your quest AND receive the reward...

You complete the quest regardless of whether you receive the reward, so the only power swing that matters for this ring is that of gaining the reward (and even then, only if you would not have gained it without the ring: Most of the time you get the reward with the ring, you would have gotten it anyway). It's a bit of a misnomer to attribute the guaranteed benefits of the quest as a benefit of the ring.

I really can't emphasize this enough: the ring only has a ~1/3 chance to actually change any quest outcomes, assuming you finish all 4 quests (on average you will finish less). In most of your matches with this ring it will do absolutely nothing to help you. Additionally, you aren't going to be playing matches where every single quest reward you could roll for is all that beneficial. Spirit stones are very situational, and some treasures and followers are pretty terrible. When was the last time you got any benefit out of royal pardon, banes claw, poison taster or miner?

[Smug Blue Dragon]

Originally posted by CatStoleTheCrown:

I've used this ring a few times now - I really like it. I try my best to go for quests every game, and I do find myself balancing reward vs stat bonus. If I would normally only have a 50% chance to succeed in a quest, it boosts it to 60%, a very helpful edge. It basically adds another success icon to the quest test and removes a failure icon. A simpler way to think about it. No need to overthink it. It's a ring that benefits the questers like myself =P

If you have a specific reason why you believe the stats and arguments I have outlined are overthinking it and not relevant, I'd love to hear it. From my perspective you are underthinking it.

[Durzlla]

Originally posted by Smug Blue Dragon:

Originally posted by Durzlla:

I feel like a lot of people are undervaluing how much of a power swing it is to complete your quest AND receive the reward...

You complete the quest regardless of whether you receive the reward, so the only power swing that matters for this ring is that of gaining the reward (and even then, only if you would not have gained it without the ring: Most of the time you get the reward with the ring, you would have gotten it anyway). It's a bit of a misnomer to attribute the guaranteed benefits of the quest as a benefit of the ring.

I really can't emphasize this enough: the ring only has a ~1/3 chance to actually change any quest outcomes, assuming you finish all 4 quests (on average you will finish less). In most of your matches with this ring it will do absolutely nothing to help you. Additionally, you aren't going to be playing matches where every single quest reward you could roll for is all that beneficial. Spirit stones are very situational, and some treasures and followers are pretty terrible. When was the last time you got any benefit out of royal pardon, banes claw, poison taster or miner?

I get a lot of benefit from miner actually, hiding in mountains is a common strategy of mine to avoid fighting monsters like Sylas, Thane, Magna etc.

And it’s not like there’s a way of knowing when the ring made it so you succeeded, and it’s literally the difference between a 40% chance and a 50% chance, which imo is a pretty good change.

And Idk about you but I typically get my 3 quests done, may not be quickly, but it’ll usually happen.

And the ring can literally be the difference between getting a royal shield, or dying to 2 health damage, or getting lions heart breastplate or losing prestiege lead etc.

[Durzlla]

Originally posted by Sandling:

As an idea, perhaps 10% additional as a base, and 10% additional for every previous quest you did not succeed?

This would definitely make it stronger without making it as busted as making it a flat 20%

[Smug Blue Dragon]

Originally posted by Durzlla:

I get a lot of benefit from miner actually, hiding in mountains is a common strategy of mine to avoid fighting monsters like Sylas, Thane, Magna etc.

And it’s not like there’s a way of knowing when the ring made it so you succeeded, and it’s literally the difference between a 40% chance and a 50% chance, which imo is a pretty good change.

And Idk about you but I typically get my 3 quests done, may not be quickly, but it’ll usually happen.

And the ring can literally be the difference between getting a royal shield, or dying to 2 health damage, or getting lions heart breastplate or losing prestiege lead etc.

Miner aside, there are still plenty of cases where the quest reward isn't going to be all that useful. That isn't to say I'm now convinced of Miner being useful or w/e, but that it's besides the point to discuss that specific follower - what matters is that there are quest rewards which aren't good. The key here is that while you have your ~1/3ish chance to get something from it each game, that number ideally would be adjusted down to account for the chance what you get is totally worthless.

You keep saying that you think the increase of 10% is a good bonus, but you haven't said anything to back it up. Why do you think it's an impactful amount? I've provided statistics showing that it is going to give you nothing in more matches than it will give you something, and I haven't really seen anyone address this point (which is probably the single most important point, too).

I also don't see why it matters that we can't see ingame if the ring made us succeed. We have the exact numbers for how it works, we can and have figured out how often it will be of use.

My point about not getting every quest done is that the number I provided assumes you get 4 quests done, every single game. Nobody, no matter how they play is going to complete every single quest, meaning that we can conclude the statistic is actually optimistic - it should be lower, which would make the ring seem to be even worse.

As for your final point, that it can sometimes be a huge difference: I am not saying that those niche situations don't exist, but that they will occur very rarely, whereas the benefits from other rabbit rings are much more consistent and will tend towards being relevant in every match, instead of less than half of them of them. They will also have their niche situations where they change an outcome massively: Sunstone could save you from a peril, or help you successfully kill something (like the king.) Pink Topaz could be the difference of affording a health item or not, or equipping a combat item just before a fight.

[Garble]

I almost always complete my quests unless I get particularly shafted by RNG. I think it is useful although perhaps not as useful as it could be. However, there are plenty of other rings and some amulets even that are just not as useful as they could be. I'm not saying that the ring has to be bad, just that the ring serves a functioning purpose and in those "niche" situations is great, unlike some other rings and amulets.

With any game with RNG it's all about improving your odds. The ring does just that and it does it in a broad way as to benefit any of your quests not just the one for your "main" stat. Sure you may not encounter your quests as much as perils or settlements or whatever else, but who's to say that you can't avoid those to the best of your ability in favor of the quests? (Although admittedly that's a weak argument)

If you don't like it and don't think it's reliable enough, don't use it. If the devs agree that it's not good enough, it may get a tweak down the line.

[Durzlla]

Look,it’s giving me an RNG bonus, I don’t care if the ring itself isn’t going to be the reason I succeed the quest as long as it’s helping me do so.

Are you telling me you won’t pop feral, or evil eye, or bark skin, or focus before going to your quest to increase your odds by another 20% because it’s only for that one quest and the chance that spell is the reason you succeed is minuscule? No. You do it because you’re trying to get the item/follower/stone reward and don’t want to fail.

If I’m taking the new ring I’m not taking it because it’ll hoping statistically it’s going to be good, I’m taking it to nudge the odds into my favor in hopes of high rolling everyone else and being loaded up with treasures and followers to carry my victory.